“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”
On May 19 Mark Hurd announced Hp’s results for the second fiscal quarter to April 30th 2009 and, surprise surprise, the results were down on last quarter. Revenue slipped three percent to $27.4bn, and most importantly for this article Q2 net profit was only $1.7bn compared with $2.1bn the previous year.
Almost immediately, and probably just as predictable, HP’s CEO Mark Hurd announced that yet another 6000 HP employees would lose their jobs. That’s six thousand living, breathing, educated, tax and mortgage paying, children raising, men and woman, cast out into a world racked with recession and rapidly rising unemployment, because HP only made $1.7bn nett profit in the last twelve weeks, folks.
A prime example of the type of corporate behavior we have become used to, or at least been afflicted with for the time being, and Mark Hurd is a masterful exponent of.
For the sake of pragmatism there’s something we need to acknowledge. CEO’s like Mark Hurd are bound by a legal mandate to maximize returns to shareholders, in fact corporate law dictates that corporations maximize profits for shareholders. When you look at things from that perspective only, and giving credit where credit is due, Mark Hurd’s strong fiscal management is probably to be commended, the Q2 results could have been a lot worse. There is little doubting that HP is a much stronger company fiscally than it was before Mark Hurd’s tenure. But that’s all, and it’s not good enough.
I believe that this law of shareholder primacy, and the perpetrators that put shareholder returns ahead, and usually to the exclusion, of any civic responsibility whatsoever, is the root cause of the current global economic crisis. As a consequence it nearly undermined our western nations economic, and strategic, security, and our way of life. It needs to stop.
Lets face it, we all like to see our investments perform well, but many of us are smart enough to understand that more corporate profit is generated through the efforts of employees than by the capital of shareholders, we’re increasingly disgusted at the way employees are being treated in the name of profit, and some of us are not afraid to express our opinions.
Now, before I get lambasted from pillar to post for being a disgruntled ex HP employee, let me tell you that I’m not. My tenure with HP served me well, unlike some of the people I was, supposedly, responsible for. I’m not claiming anything more than a mediocre contribution to HP, and I’m now happy to be gone, running my own business, where I actually can make and execute decisions. We’ve employed several people in the past three months. I earn more, work less than I did at HP, and I travel business class. Hardly anything to be disgruntled about.
My fondest memories of the place go back to the pre-merger Compaq days, and the very early stages of the Compaq HP merger, when HP was still regarded as a top company to work for, and had some semblance of morality. It was exciting, vibrant, friendly, and we still had some degree of autonomy as managers. As the cost cutting that coincided with Mark Hurd’s arrival kicked in, and jobs started to go in their tens of thousands, either gone or moved offshore, I must confess to being suckered into all that “there’s no such thing as job security”, “this is not a democracy”, “if you don’t like it there’s the door” rubbish that comes with believing in the whole shareholder primacy travesty. Slowly, perhaps a little too slowly, I began to get the sense that we were just seeing a series of logical decisions that only added up to insanity. I realized that believing all that was naive and stupid, there was some seriously questionable stuff going on. Only problem was you couldn’t question it. I stopped caring for HP, or it’s Customers, a long time before I left. I don’t think I was alone.
So why are we putting the boot into Mark Hurd, or HP then?
Well, we could just as easily target IBM or a plethora of other companies laying off people right now. But, HP is not struggling, quite the contrary, HP is a highly profitable company sitting on cash reserves of $13.0bn having made $3.7bn net profit in the past two quarters, which is supposedly justification for cutting the salaries of the entire workforce, and putting off 6000 people, headed up by the $42 million per year man, the master perpetrator of the shareholder primacy travesty, CEO Mark Hurd.
“It is necessary that people work together in unison toward common objectives and avoid working at cross purposes at all levels if the ultimate in efficiency and achievement is to be obtained.”
…Dave Packard
The founding fathers of HP would be turning in their graves if they could see what their company has become under Mark Hurd. Sure, I agree that there was a strong need for fiscal reform when Mark Hurd came along but I don’t see why HP had to be turned into a black hearted, ugly beast who’s own mother wouldn’t recognize it. The strong fiscal discipline has come at the cost of HP’s heart, it’s inventiveness, creativity, and energy, and it’s soul , the HP shared values, the HP way.
Let’s take a look at some of these still published and much flaunted (and by that I mean rammed down the employee’s throats every six months through compulsory training modules) HP shared values. Here’s my commentary, feel free to contribute yours, keep it factual.
- Passion for customers
- We put our customers first in everything we do.
No you don’t. Nothing could be further from the truth (oh, except Mark Hurds 20% pay cut that is). Profit to shareholders comes first in Mark Hurd’s HP. I’d guess that there are people at the coal face who are struggling to uphold this value but are drowning with a lack of resource. A situation that’s only going to get worse with another 6000 people to go.
- Uncompromising integrity
- We are open, honest and direct in our dealings.
Is that right? Then perhaps Mark Hurd can answer some questions?
- How come, after being prominent in the top ten companies listed in The Business Ethics 100 Best Corporate Citizens list from 2000 – 2006, HP disappeared from the list entirely in 2007?
- Is it open honest and direct to stand up and pronounce to the world that you were taking a 20% pay cut, attempting to portray yourself as the magnanimous corporate leader you’re not, when it actually amounted to a mere 0.68% of your $42.5 million dollar package for 2008?
- Is it open honest and direct to stand up and pronounce to the world in Q1 this year that cutting the salaries of the entire workforce by 5% would save 20,000 jobs, when the reality is that you are about halfway through the 24,600 job cuts from the EDS acquisition, and now you’ve added 6000 more? That’s 18,300 left to go then is it?
- Trust and respect for individuals
- We work together to create a culture of inclusion built on trust, respect and dignity for all.
Oh really? Then why is there anecdotal suggestion on this site that alleges one of Mark Hurd’s henchmen, Gary Budzinski, is waging a fear campaign against employees who, in their countries, have a democratic and legal right to vote yes or no in regards to whether you can reduce their salaries, and where any retribution is illegal, referring to them as class A or class B citizens and threatening consequences in their performance reviews? I bet Mark Hurd is pleased the video of that speech was pulled as quickly as it was eh? I’d hate to see that go viral.
- Commitment to employees
- We demonstrate our commitment to employees by promoting and rewarding based on performance and by creating a work environment that reflects our values.
Absolute rubbish, and it raises perhaps the most pertinent questions.
- Why then did HP literally disappear off the Fortune Magazine top 100 companies to work for list in 2004, after being a regular for years. Why has HP never regained it’s place on that list?
- Why then have I never seen a single word of concern, from Mark Hurd, for the very real damage he has brought to tens of thousands of people’s lives as a result of his actions?
- Why then has there been a systemic reduction, and erosion of employee real wages, benefits, and working conditions since Mark Hurd arrived? And why is he being paid so much to do it?
- Why are people loosing their jobs regardless of whether times are good or bad?
- Why aren’t people remunerated immediately they are promoted into new roles, and why don’t they receive that remuneration for more responsibility even when the remuneration review occurs?
- Why are you systematically replacing all the accumulated skill and experience with inexperienced, underpaid, of more often than not, mediocre staff?
Oh, and don’t throw us the old “internal surveys provide a more accurate view of the company than scattered anecdotes and reveal a satisfied work force” line like Mark Hurd did here. The HP Voice of The Workforce survey is at best a once in a year chore, and at worst a carefully crafted set of questions where the data is aggregated in such a way that if you ran it in a concentration camp you’d be saying the inmates are happy and think they’re living in a resort.
I could go on, but I’ll leave that to this blog’s contributors.
So, what’s the point of all this then?
It’s about jobs. It about raising the popular voice, to a shout. To demand employment in our own countries; an equitable balance between employee treatment and shareholder returns; job security; decent wages and benefits; collective bargaining and union representation in the workplace; and an end to the shifting of US, Australian, Canadian and European work offshore.
Right now, with our countries deeply in debt, caused by the whole premise of shareholder primacy, facing the prospect that we, our children, and their children will be paying that debt for generations to come, from tax revenue generated from jobs in our own countries. I believe we have the right to demand jobs from companies like HP, if we don’t then I would argue that HP doesn’t have the right to consume the earth’s resource’s, or market it’s products in our countries.
If Mark Hurd is to continue making people unemployed, if he is moving any jobs offshore right now, then he is part of the problem.
Want to know more about the shenanigans and sleazy going’s on behind the closed doors of HP’s boardroom over the past decade? Read Anthony Bianco’s The Big Lie
Secured by
Looks as though another tactic being employed by one HP-CDS manager is to vary the terms of contracts for home-based workers who have a proven track record of execution and delivery into the office on the pretence that it will result in even more stellar performance. Constructive dismissal rather than redundancy, anyone?
As an former EDS/EDS an HP company/HP employee I just would like to say well said. I believe this could be said of most pseudo-american companies. None of them practice what they preach and all are very short sighted. EDS was first raped by Dick Brown who had the same mentality, make the bottom line look good and take the money and run. To hell with the company’s longevity and it’s employees. American’s need to unite to protect worker’s rights, not by excluding other potential employees such as H1B workers ( who replaced me ) but by insisting that all American companies abide by certain worker and environmental protections regardless of where they do business and who they hire. This would prevent them from hiring H1B’s to undercut salaries and benefits and force them to hire based on the best candidate, not the best fake resume to get the cheapest labor. It would also prevent them from moving manufacturing to foreign countries because they don’t want to meet environmental standards and want to pay slave wages. It’s a disgrace that these self centered, self important, pompous asses are able to get away with treating their employees this way. Personally, I believe it’s probably one of the biggest national security risks our country has because we have foreigners getting personal data of American citizens, our manufacturing base has been decimated and our talent is being thrown away. Once the pool of technical people Who will be programming the missile defense systems, communications systems and other security applications? If American citizens are not being employed in the technical fields we are going to loose our technical expertise and be dependent on foreign countries for all of our technical resources, this is just plain stupid.
I used to run around with Randy Runk in high school. He was fun , tall, thin very good looking and had the most gorgeous turquise eyes . What is he like today at HP? Nice, mean, stern?
It’s its, dude.
So ABSOLUTELY true! I'm a 25+-yr employee with HP. At this point, it isn't about my pay (although it would at least by nice to keep up with the standard of living….rub a lamp); it's about being underappreciated. I venture to guess that most, if not all, employees (below Sr Mgmt level) feel disrespected, unappreciated and unvalued. And, it's not all just for shareholder profits; it's about lining Mark Hurd's pockets.
How does the HP bonus system work? Well, most people are eligible for Variable Performance Bonus (VPB) which (providing the planets align correctly) and you AND your division AND HP perform to some non-disclosed targets, can pay out a typically single figure percentage of your salary as a bonus.
Senior people are eligible for a different scheme, Pay For Results (PfR), which apparently can pay out 15-20%. Executives have further bonus schemes.
The company's argument is that senior people have more responsibility and should therefore be better rewarded with higher bonuses.
It's a bit scary, but your numbers are a bit out. According to HP's Proxy Statement, Hurd received $30m in 2009 (down from $42m in 2008). His salary was about $1.2m, so for 'exceeding expectations' he actually received 25 times his salary in total.
As an HP (former EDS) employee who received an “Exceeds Expectation” rating in my recent FPR I ask myself this question:
Sure Mark Hurd received ONLY about $24M USD for 2009, which is about $20M USD short of 2008; however his salary is actually about $1.65M so effectively for “exceeding Expectations” in 2009 he receives 14.5 times his salary )14.5 X $1.65M) as a bonus………
I DID NOT.
How does the HP bonus system work then ? when two seperate employees, effectively receiving the same level in FPR, get such a different percentage of bonus ?
HMMM
Oops, sorry, I've always been a bit handicapped in the spelling dept.
Another great post (which I've only just seen) but please correct the spelling of “loose/loosing” to “lose/losing” throughout your post lest you undermine it's credibility.
Sorry!
Not about to get better an overwhelming percentage of HP employees are unhappy and would leave if offered an other job. The problem is that most of them have worked there for so many years that they don't know any better. AND they are unemployable by any other organization (all they know is Dilbertan bureaucracy). The old farts, the bureaucrats, the losers are stuck. The real assets will go. But HP does not value employees and do not see it this way… oh! and by the way the folks who review the voice of the workforce results are the same who screwed up the situation anyway… do you think they'll address the real issues and fire themselves?
Like your voice Damian, you hit the nail.
Right now they have thrown out another WFR for Europe to scrape out the bastards they missed in the previous turn.
When the VOW were explained this year and the results for reward and personal development were very low we got the wonderful explanation from the company.
Rewards – “Well, you know, people are never satisfied, always want more.” On top of that a little smile.
Development – “A common misunderstandning is that people thinks that sending people to training-courses and education is the same as development, it is not how we see it. You should develop through your daily work and challanges not going on training courses.” Explain this to our customers when we tell them that we stay ahead of the competition.
Live well!
I see that someone posted an article appearing at The Street on the other HP article, this was only part of it, the whole article is at…
http://breakoutperformance.blogspot.com/2009/09/h-p-hurds-pay-troubling.html
Also, check out one from the New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/technology/business-computing/23hewlett.html?_r=1
I see that someone posted an article appearing at The Street on the other HP article, this was only part of it, the whole article is at…
http://breakoutperformance.blogspot.com/2009/09/h-p-hurds-pay-troubling.html
Also, check out one from the New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/technology/business-computing/23hewlett.html?_r=1
As Mark Hurd enjoys his 40+ Million dollar compensation package, his cash cow Legacy EDS employees (A derogatory term we can’t shake) are suffering under a massive pay cut which has brutally impacted them. Ranging from 15 to 45% pay cuts, top talent is jumping ship as fast as possible. I wonder if Mark Hurd has any clue how this will hurt HP in the long run as he is playing tennis with some of his board member cronies at HP. He is probably playing at a club were membership costs more than one of his unfortunate employees makes in a year. While at the same time his abused employees are worrying about making the next month’s mortgage payment or how they can afford college for their children. The impact of his actions will have a long term negative effect and is destroying what used to be a vibrant and wonderful place to work.
As Mark Hurd enjoys his 40+ Million dollar compensation package, his cash cow Legacy EDS employees (A derogatory term we can’t shake) are suffering under a massive pay cut which has brutally impacted them. Ranging from 15 to 45% pay cuts, top talent is jumping ship as fast as possible. I wonder if Mark Hurd has any clue how this will hurt HP in the long run as he is playing tennis with some of his board member cronies at HP. He is probably playing at a club were membership costs more than one of his unfortunate employees makes in a year. While at the same time his abused employees are worrying about making the next month’s mortgage payment or how they can afford college for their children. The impact of his actions will have a long term negative effect and is destroying what used to be a vibrant and wonderful place to work.
HP announced yesterday that Marc Andreessen was joining the Board of Directors immediately. Don’t know if he’ll just be a “yes man” from the article…
“Prior to joining Andreessen Horowitz and Ning, Andreessen co-founded and served as chairman of the board of directors of Opsware Inc. Before that he was chief technology officer of America Online Inc. and was a co-founder of Netscape Communications Corporation, serving in various positions, including chief technology officer and executive vice president of products.
Andreessen is best known as the co-author of Mosaic, the first widely used web browser. He is currently a member of the board of directors of San Jose-based eBay Inc. (NASDAQ:EBAY) and Palo Alto-based Facebook Inc.”
The guy obviously has connections, just hope it isn’t more of the good ole boys club!
HP announced yesterday that Marc Andreessen was joining the Board of Directors immediately. Don’t know if he’ll just be a “yes man” from the article…
“Prior to joining Andreessen Horowitz and Ning, Andreessen co-founded and served as chairman of the board of directors of Opsware Inc. Before that he was chief technology officer of America Online Inc. and was a co-founder of Netscape Communications Corporation, serving in various positions, including chief technology officer and executive vice president of products.
Andreessen is best known as the co-author of Mosaic, the first widely used web browser. He is currently a member of the board of directors of San Jose-based eBay Inc. (NASDAQ:EBAY) and Palo Alto-based Facebook Inc.”
The guy obviously has connections, just hope it isn’t more of the good ole boys club!
And Ann Livermore is #6 out of the top 25 paid women in the corporate world.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/fortune/0909/gallery.women_highest_pay.fortune/6.html
And Ann Livermore is #6 out of the top 25 paid women in the corporate world.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/fortune/0909/gallery.women_highest_pay.fortune/6.html
Mark Hurd is #22 to 25 highest paid men @ Fortune
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/fortune/0909/gallery.women_men_highest_pay.fortune/22.html
Also I wrote a piece for the American Labor Day earlier this week @ http://www.unionsocialmedia.org/profiles/blogs/the-state-of-workers-at-labor
Congrats to Damian on over 3,600 followers on Twitter!
Mark Hurd is #22 to 25 highest paid men @ Fortune
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/fortune/0909/gallery.women_men_highest_pay.fortune/22.html
Also I wrote a piece for the American Labor Day earlier this week @ http://www.unionsocialmedia.org/profiles/blogs/the-state-of-workers-at-labor
Congrats to Damian on over 3,600 followers on Twitter!
You really have a problem when the IT leadership has a all member staff meeting and says our goal is to have IT without People. What a joke.
You really have a problem when the IT leadership has a all member staff meeting and says our goal is to have IT without People. What a joke.
Interesting news on the continuing HP saga . . . .
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d003aa06-44c5-11de-82d6-00144feabdc0.html
http://wallstreetpit.com/9857-hewlett-packard-ceo-cfo-sell-68-million-shares
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jQ_OIxkYqPGoqo9rCk3ENETanvhgD9ABURIG0
http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/article_77d9ecf5-6449-549c-8aa4-2ce8f5ebf911.html
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/HP-Warns-Worried-EDS-Workers-Dont-Go-to-Media-53188707.html
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/08/hp_ceo_mark_hur_1.html;jsessionid=0D40RGRYFF3NJQE1GHRSKH4ATMY32JVN
Interesting news on the continuing HP saga . . . .
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d003aa06-44c5-11de-82d6-00144feabdc0.html
http://wallstreetpit.com/9857-hewlett-packard-ceo-cfo-sell-68-million-shares
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jQ_OIxkYqPGoqo9rCk3ENETanvhgD9ABURIG0
http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/article_77d9ecf5-6449-549c-8aa4-2ce8f5ebf911.html
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/HP-Warns-Worried-EDS-Workers-Dont-Go-to-Media-53188707.html
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/08/hp_ceo_mark_hur_1.html;jsessionid=0D40RGRYFF3NJQE1GHRSKH4ATMY32JVN
Ethics and HP? Read the last comment on mark hurd’s break fast at stanford law, it was his malcious intent to bias those young lawyers who help many victims of corporate malice.
http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2009/06/22/hpq-mark-hurd-live-from-stanford-directors-college/?mod=wsjcrmain
Ben
Ethics and HP? Read the last comment on mark hurd’s break fast at stanford law, it was his malcious intent to bias those young lawyers who help many victims of corporate malice.
http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2009/06/22/hpq-mark-hurd-live-from-stanford-directors-college/?mod=wsjcrmain
Ben
Received and email this morning from another colleague that Stefan Hansen, hired in September 2006 as the Vice President of the North & Central Hub of EDS has left. I assumed during the EDS OS strike in Germany that he would leave either before the integration into HP or sometime thereafter.
Received and email this morning from another colleague that Stefan Hansen, hired in September 2006 as the Vice President of the North & Central Hub of EDS has left. I assumed during the EDS OS strike in Germany that he would leave either before the integration into HP or sometime thereafter.
I finally found the problem with Mark Hurd. I hacked into his brain(it runs linux oddly enough) and ran the following:
mhurd@brain:~$ man "Ethical Behavior For HP Executives"My results?
No manual entry for Ethical Behavior For HP ExecutivesI finally found the problem with Mark Hurd. I hacked into his brain(it runs linux oddly enough) and ran the following:
mhurd@brain:~$ man "Ethical Behavior For HP Executives"My results?
No manual entry for Ethical Behavior For HP ExecutivesEarly tests of my Twitter bot seem encouraging. Now just to vary the senders, keep tweet rate to a sane amount. Enough to generate some interest, but not so much that it just becomes noise.
Still requires some work on the tweets to search for so the bot replies to people and not job agency bots.
Spreadin’ the word about Hurd
Probably a good idea to link to the article, as opposed to the home page (if you’re not already) as I intend to post about some other topics as well as the continuing HP saga.
Your wish ist my command. You are my follow friday.
Early tests of my Twitter bot seem encouraging. Now just to vary the senders, keep tweet rate to a sane amount. Enough to generate some interest, but not so much that it just becomes noise.
Still requires some work on the tweets to search for so the bot replies to people and not job agency bots.
Spreadin’ the word about Hurd
Probably a good idea to link to the article, as opposed to the home page (if you’re not already) as I intend to post about some other topics as well as the continuing HP saga.
Your wish ist my command. You are my follow friday.
And let’s start a thread about the confusing vacation time loss that occurs Jan 1 2010. I don’t think there is any clear explanation of this change. And talking to HR left our team rep completely lost. Anyone have any input?
And let’s start a thread about the confusing vacation time loss that occurs Jan 1 2010. I don’t think there is any clear explanation of this change. And talking to HR left our team rep completely lost. Anyone have any input?
Wanted to post this at WSJ.com but it reveals one’s name. I don’t think the HP hounds would like an employee saying anything remotely negative about the company.
So I’ll post it here:
Good Question: How Has EDS Helped H-P?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125054255699338061.html#articleTabs%3Dcomments
Comment:
“How Has EDS Helped H-P?
Well, by “cutting” costs as the article noted, revenue from new and ongoing contracts have fewer and fewer off-setting expenses…in the form of employee wages and benefits. Various web sites are replete with examples of how employee costs are being cut through WFR’s, and pay/benefits cuts. [some of the reports cite interesting approaches, like creating new job codes in HP to map from EDS codes, and then setting experienced people at entry-level classifications and wages--sometimes resulting in 10-50% cuts in pay]
These services are not immediately deliverable, like a hardware device. But revenue streams during the building or maintaining of the services over time. One thing to watch is whether HP can deliver, or continue to deliver, on contractual obligations and SLA’s for the near and long term.
Since services can include very creative work on an ongoing basis, it will remain to be seen whether HP can retain or attract the best and the brightest–or even moderately competent–tech workers to fulfill the contracts.
As the economy improves, and the fear factor fades, expect greater turnover on existing services contracts (and all that such churn entails).
In the meantime, however, shareholders and the top executives continue enjoy increased value and bonuses. Employees continue to suffer WFR’s, pay and benefit cuts.
And the clock keeps ticking on new and existing service contracts.
Absolutly, and the market winds are starting to blow…
Check out this post on Yahoo Finance.
In short…
read more here
Wanted to post this at WSJ.com but it reveals one’s name. I don’t think the HP hounds would like an employee saying anything remotely negative about the company.
So I’ll post it here:
Good Question: How Has EDS Helped H-P?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125054255699338061.html#articleTabs%3Dcomments
Comment:
“How Has EDS Helped H-P?
Well, by “cutting” costs as the article noted, revenue from new and ongoing contracts have fewer and fewer off-setting expenses…in the form of employee wages and benefits. Various web sites are replete with examples of how employee costs are being cut through WFR’s, and pay/benefits cuts. [some of the reports cite interesting approaches, like creating new job codes in HP to map from EDS codes, and then setting experienced people at entry-level classifications and wages--sometimes resulting in 10-50% cuts in pay]
These services are not immediately deliverable, like a hardware device. But revenue streams during the building or maintaining of the services over time. One thing to watch is whether HP can deliver, or continue to deliver, on contractual obligations and SLA’s for the near and long term.
Since services can include very creative work on an ongoing basis, it will remain to be seen whether HP can retain or attract the best and the brightest–or even moderately competent–tech workers to fulfill the contracts.
As the economy improves, and the fear factor fades, expect greater turnover on existing services contracts (and all that such churn entails).
In the meantime, however, shareholders and the top executives continue enjoy increased value and bonuses. Employees continue to suffer WFR’s, pay and benefit cuts.
And the clock keeps ticking on new and existing service contracts.
Absolutly, and the market winds are starting to blow…
Check out this post on Yahoo Finance.
In short…
read more here
In EDS in the UK everyone has been given their new HP job codes. Many of them are wrong and Mark Hurds HP is saying that they are fixed with no process of appeal for at least 12 months.
The plan was for EDS payscales to be brought in line with HP ones for September, that has now been pushed back to November because now HP payscales are being re-worked. Call me cynical but I think the reason for the delay is because EDS payscales in the UK were lower than the HP ones already and Mark Hurd doesn’t want us to miss out on his paycut frenzy so he’s bringing the HP scales down even lower.
Everything points to forced pay-cuts in the UK later this year, they are banking on the rank and file just bending over and taking it. For me it will be the moment we will all be tested. Do we give in to fear, take the path of least resistance and give Mark what he wants or do we stand up to be counted and resign and bring HP UK to its knees with constructive dismissal claims?
Well, in the UK HP/EDS cannot legally reduce your salary without your individual consent, hence the reason we were all asked individually to take the 5% pay cut last month (love to know how many people said ‘yes’). They can do what they want with pay scales but they still cannot legally reduce your salary without your consent.
If they REALLY wanted to force a pay cut my understanding is that they could, by terminating contracts on the basis of an unresolvable dispute and re-employing us all on new terms and conditions. It would leave them open to unfair dismissal claims and has been referred to as the ‘nuclear option’ by HR people. It wouldn’t do much for goodwill either.
There isn’t any goodwill left. The forced option is definitely on the table, question is will they have the guts to do it ?
I’d say we all HP and EDS stand up and bring Mark Hurds HP to it knees. Along with a storm of lawsuits to help make sure they dont get up again ….
Well a storm of lawsuits might be easier said than done as Mark Hurds concept of ethics is to behave just marginally within the law. Again, I would strongly suggest trial by public opinion using social media.
The only people that win with the lawsuits are the lawyers. HP will tie up all of the lawsuits in court for years. The attorneys handling the lawsuit over unpaid sales commission want 40% of everything HP has to pay out. And if the employees don’t win the lawsuit they still have to pay their attorney’s fees.
HP’s biggest enemy is the media . . .
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/HP-Warns-Worried-EDS-Workers-Dont-Go-to-Media-53188707.html
As a current employee of HP I see the behavior of all employees slowly bringing this company to its knees. Employees are slow to respond to customers, purposely providing incorrect information, passing the buck, and they generally don’t care if the customer is taken care of or not. Customers are getting sick and tired of it. Mark Hurd has his head in the sand if he thinks customers don’t read about what is going on inside HP and if he thinks customers don’t see how the employees are reacting to his unethical behavior and exploitation of the HP workforce. The intimidation of employees and arrogance of upper management within HP is something I have never seen before.
I want to know what board of directors thinks about him. Do they condone his behavior? Why haven’t they booted him out like they did Carly when they realized she was taking the company down the wrong path? Is anyone thinking about the effect Mark Hurd will have on this company long-term? HP will never recover from what he has done. The new people they’ve hired to replace some of the people that have been laid off are now starting to leave, despite the economy, because they were fed up with the way they were being treated. It didn’t take long for them to figure it out either. Now HP is having issues trying to get seasoned sales people to come and work for them because of their reputation of not paying sales commissions. In this terrible economy how many companies are exerpiencing attrition? Not many. But HP is.
Hurd continues to preach about employee incentive for performance but when they perform and meet the unattainable goals he sets, HE STILL DOESN’T PAY THEM!!!!
As an employee it really feels like Mark Hurd just resents having to pay ANYONE working for “his” company. HP is like a sweat shop where you are expected to work 60 hours a week, sacrificing time away from your family, so you can tell people you work for HP. And if you are not satisified with your wages you are told that “you should just feel fortunate to have a job”. And “you should be thankful that HP allows you work for them”.
At one sales meeting a manager was actually scolding the sales force for not hitting their goal. He said “We’re HP. All we have to do is show up.” “Why can’t you close deals?”
And what is the Omega tool being used for anyway? According to Omega, many sales people were showing a LIABILITY for several hundred throusand dollars . . . this means they OWE HP money back for overpaid commission. Now this happened at the beginning of the fiscal year when quotas had not even been set. I’m sure the first quarter earnings statement looked better since the entire sales force owed HP money instead of showing commission that would have been paid out if the systems were accurate. But I don’t understand how a sales rep can have a liability of $585,000 when they earn less than $100,000 at 100% of quota.
Someone please explain this to me and while you’re at it, please tell me why the SEC isn’t looking at this. The Omega system has been showing inaccurate liabilities for sales reps for years, since Hurd took over. Doesn’t this have an effect on HP’s profit/earnings statement they publish every quarter? Is Hurd using the Omega tool to boost the bottom line reported to the shareholders? Is this how he meets his “numbers” so he can get those big bonuses?
As for the HP network, it totally sucks. The tools don’t work and when do they are slow and inaccurate. When you click on a link you have a 50% chance of getting a server time out or error message.
Seems like every product we ship out these days has a defective part or malfunctions and has to be replaced.
Our inventory levels are at an all time low, to lower costs, of course, while our customer experience extended lead times on IT equipment badly needed to run their businesses. HP doesn’t care.
I bought an HP laptop about two years ago and it just died one day. Found out that it was one of the defective models (there are severl) so I called HP to get it repaired. They told me it was no longer covered under the extended warranty they put in place for the defective models, even though HP NEVER sent out notifications to customer who bought the models that were defective. I now have a $500 paperweight. I’d buy a Dell but due to HP cutting my salary and refusing to pay my commission, I can’t afford it.
Any idea why Hurd and some of the others are selling all of their stock? Could it be because he knew the stock price would fall drastically once the media found out about HP owing back taxes?
http://wallstreetpit.com/9857-hewlett-packard-ceo-cfo-sell-68-million-shares
And why does HP owe BACK TAXES?! http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d003aa06-44c5-11de-82d6-00144feabdc0.html
Is HP going to end up being another Enron? It certainly looks that way.
In EDS in the UK everyone has been given their new HP job codes. Many of them are wrong and Mark Hurds HP is saying that they are fixed with no process of appeal for at least 12 months.
The plan was for EDS payscales to be brought in line with HP ones for September, that has now been pushed back to November because now HP payscales are being re-worked. Call me cynical but I think the reason for the delay is because EDS payscales in the UK were lower than the HP ones already and Mark Hurd doesn’t want us to miss out on his paycut frenzy so he’s bringing the HP scales down even lower.
Everything points to forced pay-cuts in the UK later this year, they are banking on the rank and file just bending over and taking it. For me it will be the moment we will all be tested. Do we give in to fear, take the path of least resistance and give Mark what he wants or do we stand up to be counted and resign and bring HP UK to its knees with constructive dismissal claims?
Well, in the UK HP/EDS cannot legally reduce your salary without your individual consent, hence the reason we were all asked individually to take the 5% pay cut last month (love to know how many people said ‘yes’). They can do what they want with pay scales but they still cannot legally reduce your salary without your consent.
If they REALLY wanted to force a pay cut my understanding is that they could, by terminating contracts on the basis of an unresolvable dispute and re-employing us all on new terms and conditions. It would leave them open to unfair dismissal claims and has been referred to as the ‘nuclear option’ by HR people. It wouldn’t do much for goodwill either.
There isn’t any goodwill left. The forced option is definitely on the table, question is will they have the guts to do it ?
I’d say we all HP and EDS stand up and bring Mark Hurds HP to it knees. Along with a storm of lawsuits to help make sure they dont get up again ….
Well a storm of lawsuits might be easier said than done as Mark Hurds concept of ethics is to behave just marginally within the law. Again, I would strongly suggest trial by public opinion using social media.
The only people that win with the lawsuits are the lawyers. HP will tie up all of the lawsuits in court for years. The attorneys handling the lawsuit over unpaid sales commission want 40% of everything HP has to pay out. And if the employees don’t win the lawsuit they still have to pay their attorney’s fees.
HP’s biggest enemy is the media . . .
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/HP-Warns-Worried-EDS-Workers-Dont-Go-to-Media-53188707.html
As a current employee of HP I see the behavior of all employees slowly bringing this company to its knees. Employees are slow to respond to customers, purposely providing incorrect information, passing the buck, and they generally don’t care if the customer is taken care of or not. Customers are getting sick and tired of it. Mark Hurd has his head in the sand if he thinks customers don’t read about what is going on inside HP and if he thinks customers don’t see how the employees are reacting to his unethical behavior and exploitation of the HP workforce. The intimidation of employees and arrogance of upper management within HP is something I have never seen before.
I want to know what board of directors thinks about him. Do they condone his behavior? Why haven’t they booted him out like they did Carly when they realized she was taking the company down the wrong path? Is anyone thinking about the effect Mark Hurd will have on this company long-term? HP will never recover from what he has done. The new people they’ve hired to replace some of the people that have been laid off are now starting to leave, despite the economy, because they were fed up with the way they were being treated. It didn’t take long for them to figure it out either. Now HP is having issues trying to get seasoned sales people to come and work for them because of their reputation of not paying sales commissions. In this terrible economy how many companies are exerpiencing attrition? Not many. But HP is.
Hurd continues to preach about employee incentive for performance but when they perform and meet the unattainable goals he sets, HE STILL DOESN’T PAY THEM!!!!
As an employee it really feels like Mark Hurd just resents having to pay ANYONE working for “his” company. HP is like a sweat shop where you are expected to work 60 hours a week, sacrificing time away from your family, so you can tell people you work for HP. And if you are not satisified with your wages you are told that “you should just feel fortunate to have a job”. And “you should be thankful that HP allows you work for them”.
At one sales meeting a manager was actually scolding the sales force for not hitting their goal. He said “We’re HP. All we have to do is show up.” “Why can’t you close deals?”
And what is the Omega tool being used for anyway? According to Omega, many sales people were showing a LIABILITY for several hundred throusand dollars . . . this means they OWE HP money back for overpaid commission. Now this happened at the beginning of the fiscal year when quotas had not even been set. I’m sure the first quarter earnings statement looked better since the entire sales force owed HP money instead of showing commission that would have been paid out if the systems were accurate. But I don’t understand how a sales rep can have a liability of $585,000 when they earn less than $100,000 at 100% of quota.
Someone please explain this to me and while you’re at it, please tell me why the SEC isn’t looking at this. The Omega system has been showing inaccurate liabilities for sales reps for years, since Hurd took over. Doesn’t this have an effect on HP’s profit/earnings statement they publish every quarter? Is Hurd using the Omega tool to boost the bottom line reported to the shareholders? Is this how he meets his “numbers” so he can get those big bonuses?
As for the HP network, it totally sucks. The tools don’t work and when do they are slow and inaccurate. When you click on a link you have a 50% chance of getting a server time out or error message.
Seems like every product we ship out these days has a defective part or malfunctions and has to be replaced.
Our inventory levels are at an all time low, to lower costs, of course, while our customer experience extended lead times on IT equipment badly needed to run their businesses. HP doesn’t care.
I bought an HP laptop about two years ago and it just died one day. Found out that it was one of the defective models (there are severl) so I called HP to get it repaired. They told me it was no longer covered under the extended warranty they put in place for the defective models, even though HP NEVER sent out notifications to customer who bought the models that were defective. I now have a $500 paperweight. I’d buy a Dell but due to HP cutting my salary and refusing to pay my commission, I can’t afford it.
Any idea why Hurd and some of the others are selling all of their stock? Could it be because he knew the stock price would fall drastically once the media found out about HP owing back taxes?
http://wallstreetpit.com/9857-hewlett-packard-ceo-cfo-sell-68-million-shares
And why does HP owe BACK TAXES?! http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d003aa06-44c5-11de-82d6-00144feabdc0.html
Is HP going to end up being another Enron? It certainly looks that way.
Many long term employees (> 20 years of ‘HP’ service) no longer have ANY trust in the upper layers of HP management, EDS is not being singled out! This is not going to change and the affects likely are irreversible. Fear now is the main and only tool management has to keep the troops in line. This phenomenon of disrespect to employees is based on Hurd’s demonstrated activities the past 3 years and in my opinion falls solely on the belief that ethical/moral behavior equals “is it Legal?”, if it is legal it must be ethical/moral” and the consequences of this can be discussed by his successor after he is done pillaging from the short term gains. Here is the latest EDS news; http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/HP-Warns-Worried-EDS-Workers-Dont-Go-to-Media-53188707.html
Dead right! I’m an old time HP’er. Hurd & Mott have created a souless he’ll which makes sub par products. I can’t wait until I get laid off and until that day I’ll be working my own projects.
How do we start up a twitter campaign
That’s a damn good question and probably answered better in a full post, but in short this is what I recommend;
Get yourself a Twitter account
Build your Twitter followers – users that are interested in the same subject matter as you – by following them initially. Twitter etiquette is that many of these people will follow you in return.
Tweet regularly, but keep it real. Tweeting HP Sucks every 5 minutes wont achieve anything. A good approach is to follow the 3 E’s of Tweeting (thanks to Jay Berkowitz TenGoldenRules.com) Educate, Enlighten, Entertain.
Take advantage that Twitter gives you the facility to get stuff out there faster than you can say "jeez I hope this doesn’t get out" (take Iran for example). Remember, these guys are committing what is typically regarded as socially immoral, unfair, repugnant, and bereft of honor behavior, and they are being paid a fortune to do it. You can bet your bottom dollar that they don’t want the word getting out. You can also bet that there are dissenting voices on the board of directors who are just waiting for the leverage of public opinion to confront Mark Hurd on his actions.
Some useful, and free Twitter utilities are;
Tweetdeck is your personal browser for staying in touch with what’s happening now, connecting you with your contacts across Twitter, Facebook and more. I use this to monitor tweets on subjects, build my followers, and tweet.
Buzzom is a fantastic little Twitter utility that enables you to build relevant followers fast. I’ve just started using it myself.
I hope that helps and I might publish a post that elaborates on this soon – I am a bit of a lazy writer though
Andy Mattes must be living on the moon. The only thing that would stop EDSERs talking to the media now is if Mark Hurd gets the boot.
Do they think we are stupid ? It is not about restructuring EDS for the future it is all about Hurds bonus!!!!
Just for Fun (and a good Laugh ) you should Google “Andy Mattes” and see where he was before and when HP hired him …
Many long term employees (> 20 years of ‘HP’ service) no longer have ANY trust in the upper layers of HP management, EDS is not being singled out! This is not going to change and the affects likely are irreversible. Fear now is the main and only tool management has to keep the troops in line. This phenomenon of disrespect to employees is based on Hurd’s demonstrated activities the past 3 years and in my opinion falls solely on the belief that ethical/moral behavior equals “is it Legal?”, if it is legal it must be ethical/moral” and the consequences of this can be discussed by his successor after he is done pillaging from the short term gains. Here is the latest EDS news; http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/business/HP-Warns-Worried-EDS-Workers-Dont-Go-to-Media-53188707.html
Dead right! I’m an old time HP’er. Hurd & Mott have created a souless he’ll which makes sub par products. I can’t wait until I get laid off and until that day I’ll be working my own projects.
How do we start up a twitter campaign
That’s a damn good question and probably answered better in a full post, but in short this is what I recommend;
Get yourself a Twitter account
Build your Twitter followers – users that are interested in the same subject matter as you – by following them initially. Twitter etiquette is that many of these people will follow you in return.
Tweet regularly, but keep it real. Tweeting HP Sucks every 5 minutes wont achieve anything. A good approach is to follow the 3 E’s of Tweeting (thanks to Jay Berkowitz TenGoldenRules.com) Educate, Enlighten, Entertain.
Take advantage that Twitter gives you the facility to get stuff out there faster than you can say "jeez I hope this doesn’t get out" (take Iran for example). Remember, these guys are committing what is typically regarded as socially immoral, unfair, repugnant, and bereft of honor behavior, and they are being paid a fortune to do it. You can bet your bottom dollar that they don’t want the word getting out. You can also bet that there are dissenting voices on the board of directors who are just waiting for the leverage of public opinion to confront Mark Hurd on his actions.
Some useful, and free Twitter utilities are;
Tweetdeck is your personal browser for staying in touch with what’s happening now, connecting you with your contacts across Twitter, Facebook and more. I use this to monitor tweets on subjects, build my followers, and tweet.
Buzzom is a fantastic little Twitter utility that enables you to build relevant followers fast. I’ve just started using it myself.
I hope that helps and I might publish a post that elaborates on this soon – I am a bit of a lazy writer though
Andy Mattes must be living on the moon. The only thing that would stop EDSERs talking to the media now is if Mark Hurd gets the boot.
Do they think we are stupid ? It is not about restructuring EDS for the future it is all about Hurds bonus!!!!
Just for Fun (and a good Laugh ) you should Google “Andy Mattes” and see where he was before and when HP hired him …
Maybe its not true, but allegedly in the UK Mark Hurds HP are going to cut short term sick pay from 100% to 75%.
Again this is a measure that will backfire. How many sick days are taken by EDSERs because they have been working lots of extra hours and weekends – The solution is to not work extra hours.
Yet again proof that Mark Hurd does not understand the service industry.
Why anyone would ever work more hours than you agreed to is beyond me. You should know by now that working more hours is no way to get ahead – it simply doesn’t work. Every hour you work over and above those that you were contracted to work contributes to the “ghost workforce” of labor that Mark Hurd gets for free. Stop it.
Easy to say, Damian, but I know people who are working insane hours who are afraid to say no, because they don’t want to be the first on a project to step out of line. Mind you, I never stepped out of line, but I still got WFR’d, as will some of them if the call for more heads comes.
I agree, it’s really easy for me to say this but I do understand the predicament these people find themselves in, I’ve been there myself and it wasn’t until I realized a long time ago that I had no “life” outside HP that I began to change my priorities and my vision of the future. Unfortunately the situation wont change until people reevaluate how much of their time, and their life, they are prepared to compromise in return for what HP is paying them.
Maybe its not true, but allegedly in the UK Mark Hurds HP are going to cut short term sick pay from 100% to 75%.
Again this is a measure that will backfire. How many sick days are taken by EDSERs because they have been working lots of extra hours and weekends – The solution is to not work extra hours.
Yet again proof that Mark Hurd does not understand the service industry.
Why anyone would ever work more hours than you agreed to is beyond me. You should know by now that working more hours is no way to get ahead – it simply doesn’t work. Every hour you work over and above those that you were contracted to work contributes to the “ghost workforce” of labor that Mark Hurd gets for free. Stop it.
Easy to say, Damian, but I know people who are working insane hours who are afraid to say no, because they don’t want to be the first on a project to step out of line. Mind you, I never stepped out of line, but I still got WFR’d, as will some of them if the call for more heads comes.
I agree, it’s really easy for me to say this but I do understand the predicament these people find themselves in, I’ve been there myself and it wasn’t until I realized a long time ago that I had no “life” outside HP that I began to change my priorities and my vision of the future. Unfortunately the situation wont change until people reevaluate how much of their time, and their life, they are prepared to compromise in return for what HP is paying them.
Who in his/her right mind would ever consider working for HP?
And if you’re already there, for how long will you tolerate the abuse? Kicked to the ground, stomped on and bleeding, hoping the pain and further abuse will just stop…what are you thinking?
Thugs depend upon expected human reactions in the face of intimidation. Just lie still and do whatever they want.
Just when you think to yourself and tell your loved ones that: “As bad as this is, it couldn’t possibly get any worse?”
Wrong.
——————
“What is the rationale for the employee to stay or perform this year? Is [an employee] going to give 100% this year for the company so he can get a 25% pay cut next year too? This is where HP say, ‘oh, but you have a job’.
“What is this going to do to employee morale at the particular accounts? Could this backfire and have solid employees either leave or take an ‘I don’t [care]‘ attitude? If this happens, it could backfire so much that HP will not be performing up to the obligations of their account and could, in the long run, lose the account.”
A further e-mail said the cuts are piling up for loyal staff. “My husband, who is not an executive, has involuntarily received a 21% cut in pay this year, and from September another permanent 16.4%.”
http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/08/10/237253/eds-staff-face-life-changing-pay-cuts.htm
“…some employees will receive pay reductions while others will benefit from salary increases…”
Bull. I haven’t heard of one person who got a salary increase from this.
I’d like to hear from anyone who gets a pay increase, how about we put the word out?
Supposedly, EDS management are ‘disputing’ these paycuts but claim there are thousands of them being challenged, so they don’t know how soon they will be getting any answers back from HP. Anyone else know of this “dispute”?
Yes, my dispute was taken up the the head of our division… It was shut down since HP is not reviewing any of them…
Who in his/her right mind would ever consider working for HP?
And if you’re already there, for how long will you tolerate the abuse? Kicked to the ground, stomped on and bleeding, hoping the pain and further abuse will just stop…what are you thinking?
Thugs depend upon expected human reactions in the face of intimidation. Just lie still and do whatever they want.
Just when you think to yourself and tell your loved ones that: “As bad as this is, it couldn’t possibly get any worse?”
Wrong.
——————
“What is the rationale for the employee to stay or perform this year? Is [an employee] going to give 100% this year for the company so he can get a 25% pay cut next year too? This is where HP say, ‘oh, but you have a job’.
“What is this going to do to employee morale at the particular accounts? Could this backfire and have solid employees either leave or take an ‘I don’t [care]‘ attitude? If this happens, it could backfire so much that HP will not be performing up to the obligations of their account and could, in the long run, lose the account.”
A further e-mail said the cuts are piling up for loyal staff. “My husband, who is not an executive, has involuntarily received a 21% cut in pay this year, and from September another permanent 16.4%.”
http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/08/10/237253/eds-staff-face-life-changing-pay-cuts.htm
“…some employees will receive pay reductions while others will benefit from salary increases…”
Bull. I haven’t heard of one person who got a salary increase from this.
I’d like to hear from anyone who gets a pay increase, how about we put the word out?
Supposedly, EDS management are ‘disputing’ these paycuts but claim there are thousands of them being challenged, so they don’t know how soon they will be getting any answers back from HP. Anyone else know of this “dispute”?
Yes, my dispute was taken up the the head of our division… It was shut down since HP is not reviewing any of them…
Been scanning the news past and current about HP-EDS layoffs and pay cuts both in the U.S. and Europe. Regarding cuts: if demoralized or unable-to-live-on-these-lower-wages employees leave, then HP doesn’t have to pay severance. If they find new jobs, HP doesn’t have to pay severance. Also, in most states, they don’t have to compensate you for accrued vacation time. And if you DO stick around for the inevitable layoff, if you do get a severance package, it will be at the slashed final pay rate.
But, as much as that helps HP, that’s not even their major goal. They really want to be able to say with a straight face that the only place they could find workers/talent/etc. is in other (third world) countries with significantly lower prevailing wages.
When congress asks, they’ll say: “We just couldn’t find any local talent. We tried…we posted openings?! We just had to look elsewhere.”
Don’t know about, you but I’ve blacklisted HP in my new business, of course having Apple products available made that a no brainer anyway
And, if it’s true that outgoing people sign an agreement that includes wording stating that the person is not eligible to EVER work for HP again…then that lends even more credence to the assertion that they are reducing the willing and/or able IT workforce in the U.S. and Europe so that they are “justified” in off-shoring everything.
Hey, maybe they should have wording that states that outgoing employees may NEVER work at any tech company again, in any part of world?! Kind of like a non-compete clause on steroids!
I can confirm it’s true for WFRs in Singapore at least.
mmmh..so what’s the latest news with HP singapore?
AFAIK, yet another round of re-structuring has been announced and it seems that this time bigger fishes will die. After this round, it is very likely that upper management would be replaced with Mark compliant individuals unlikely to know CMYK from YMCA.
It’s a matter of time before HP fails – putting cost (and connections – Foxconn? Fox Cons!) before quality, both in terms of people and of CM partners we choose, is really intellectually challenging.
The HP we know is no more. Remember that first SoBC video?
Mark has learned from Carly’s mistake, dug in and fortified himself so that the board cannot simply fire him.
Sadly, its true…
Severance? I’m afraid HP is about to do away with those constantly shrinking severance packages . . . visit this link, see posting # 206
http://www.siliconbeat.com/2009/01/20/2522/
“Severance is a nicety, it is not required. In the current economic conditions we cannot afford to give niceties”…
Been scanning the news past and current about HP-EDS layoffs and pay cuts both in the U.S. and Europe. Regarding cuts: if demoralized or unable-to-live-on-these-lower-wages employees leave, then HP doesn’t have to pay severance. If they find new jobs, HP doesn’t have to pay severance. Also, in most states, they don’t have to compensate you for accrued vacation time. And if you DO stick around for the inevitable layoff, if you do get a severance package, it will be at the slashed final pay rate.
But, as much as that helps HP, that’s not even their major goal. They really want to be able to say with a straight face that the only place they could find workers/talent/etc. is in other (third world) countries with significantly lower prevailing wages.
When congress asks, they’ll say: “We just couldn’t find any local talent. We tried…we posted openings?! We just had to look elsewhere.”
Don’t know about, you but I’ve blacklisted HP in my new business, of course having Apple products available made that a no brainer anyway
And, if it’s true that outgoing people sign an agreement that includes wording stating that the person is not eligible to EVER work for HP again…then that lends even more credence to the assertion that they are reducing the willing and/or able IT workforce in the U.S. and Europe so that they are “justified” in off-shoring everything.
Hey, maybe they should have wording that states that outgoing employees may NEVER work at any tech company again, in any part of world?! Kind of like a non-compete clause on steroids!
I can confirm it’s true for WFRs in Singapore at least.
mmmh..so what’s the latest news with HP singapore?
AFAIK, yet another round of re-structuring has been announced and it seems that this time bigger fishes will die. After this round, it is very likely that upper management would be replaced with Mark compliant individuals unlikely to know CMYK from YMCA.
It’s a matter of time before HP fails – putting cost (and connections – Foxconn? Fox Cons!) before quality, both in terms of people and of CM partners we choose, is really intellectually challenging.
The HP we know is no more. Remember that first SoBC video?
Mark has learned from Carly’s mistake, dug in and fortified himself so that the board cannot simply fire him.
Sadly, its true…
Severance? I’m afraid HP is about to do away with those constantly shrinking severance packages . . . visit this link, see posting # 206
http://www.siliconbeat.com/2009/01/20/2522/
“Severance is a nicety, it is not required. In the current economic conditions we cannot afford to give niceties”…
This is an interesting New development:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=adDzt7DwficE
This is an interesting New development:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=adDzt7DwficE
“In a May 25 email, Mr. Runk called the problem his top priority. “I know the financial hardship this places on all of you,” he wrote to the sales force. “I regret these chronic and persistent problems with Omega sales compensation.””
Right, like those a$$wipes give a rat’s a$$ about anyone’s financial hardship. How about all those people who got 40% + paycuts, or the more than 40K people who lost their jobs?
“In a May 25 email, Mr. Runk called the problem his top priority. “I know the financial hardship this places on all of you,” he wrote to the sales force. “I regret these chronic and persistent problems with Omega sales compensation.””
Right, like those a$$wipes give a rat’s a$$ about anyone’s financial hardship. How about all those people who got 40% + paycuts, or the more than 40K people who lost their jobs?
I have to highlight the words from an HP spokesperson – that the salary realignment,” enables hp to effectively drive its pay for performance strategy with a consistent job-based foundation for rewards, development and organization planning,”
Now, how is that going to work? How is HP going to manage the pay for performance strategy? How are they going to determine who gets rewarded, and by how much? OMEGA?? HP can’t even properly reward their Sales Staff – a much smaller number of employees; probably a much smaller amount of data and criteria. How do you manage that for 300,000+ employees? The bonus/rewards/whatever has never worked in the 32+ years that I have been in IT, and it never will.
Mr. Hurd only has one thing in mind, and that is to overtake IBM and line his own pockets at all costs. He’s a rich man. This is just a game for him, and a very sick game for that matter. HP is in no financial difficulty whatsoever. They showed a profit of 1.7 billion in the last quarter. They have what, over $10 billion in the bank. They recently purchased a Network company, so that they can compete with Cisco. Mr Hurd is ruining the lives of the employees that helped bring HP and EDS success over many years (10, 20, and 30+ years), and through a very difficult recession.
He’s a sick man – Lock him up!!
BOOYAH!!! What goes around, comes around.
I have to highlight the words from an HP spokesperson – that the salary realignment,” enables hp to effectively drive its pay for performance strategy with a consistent job-based foundation for rewards, development and organization planning,”
Now, how is that going to work? How is HP going to manage the pay for performance strategy? How are they going to determine who gets rewarded, and by how much? OMEGA?? HP can’t even properly reward their Sales Staff – a much smaller number of employees; probably a much smaller amount of data and criteria. How do you manage that for 300,000+ employees? The bonus/rewards/whatever has never worked in the 32+ years that I have been in IT, and it never will.
Mr. Hurd only has one thing in mind, and that is to overtake IBM and line his own pockets at all costs. He’s a rich man. This is just a game for him, and a very sick game for that matter. HP is in no financial difficulty whatsoever. They showed a profit of 1.7 billion in the last quarter. They have what, over $10 billion in the bank. They recently purchased a Network company, so that they can compete with Cisco. Mr Hurd is ruining the lives of the employees that helped bring HP and EDS success over many years (10, 20, and 30+ years), and through a very difficult recession.
He’s a sick man – Lock him up!!
BOOYAH!!! What goes around, comes around.
Lets try posting the whole article:
From the second page of today’s Wall Street Journal.
AUGUST 5, 2009
H-P Is on Quest to Fix Software Glitch
By JUSTIN SCHECK
Hewlett-Packard Co. urges customers to replace clunky, older technology with cutting-edge H-P systems that make businesses more efficient. But the technology giant itself still runs outdated software that has frustrated some of its employees.
Problems with an in-house system named Omega have kept about 2,000 of H-P’s more than 23,000 salespeople from getting their proper monthly commissions for much of this year, according to current and former H-P employees and recent company emails reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
Omega calculates commissions for many salespeople in H-P’s business-technology group, which sells back-office computer equipment. But the system, which H-P inherited in a 2002 acquisition, has struggled to handle H-P’s growing mounds of data.
Omega has repeatedly malfunctioned since November, according to company emails which show that some salespeople have waited as long as seven months to get their correct commissions.
H-P has instead given some salespeople monthly payments equal to 60% or 70% of what they would earn for meeting sales quotas, according to the emails. It is common for a salesperson in the group to make more than $150,000 annually, said former employees and executives.
Omega’s glitches affect just a fraction of H-P’s more than 300,000 workers, and there is no evidence it significantly affects H-P’s business.
“You’d be foolish to think people aren’t frustrated,” said Al Chien, a sales executive who left H-P last year and is now at Dasher Technologies Inc., which resells H-P equipment.
H-P has had problems with Omega, a spokeswoman said, elaborating in a written statement: “We are in the midst of transforming every application in the company to rationalize 6,500 systems down to 1,500, but still have work to do.
“Recently, we experienced a glitch with one of those applications, which resulted in delayed compensation for a small percentage of our global sales team,” the statement continued. “We expect to have this resolved shortly and are committed to ensuring that all of our systems operate flawlessly.”
H-P started using Omega seven years ago when it bought rival Compaq Computer Corp., which itself inherited the technology from its 1998 acquisition of Digital Equipment Corp.
“Over the years, H-P has integrated many sales forces and inherited thousands of complex internal systems,” the spokeswoman’s statement said.
Mark Hurd
Such “legacy” computer systems, which get passed down over the years, are a familiar problem among corporations — including technology companies. Since he took over H-P four years ago, Chief Executive Mark Hurd has made a point of telling customers to update old technology. He highlights H-P’s years-long effort to modernize its own systems at a cost of more than $1 billion.
Omega’s delays result partly from H-P’s success: They have worsened as the tech giant has grown. H-P’s revenue soared from $73 billion in fiscal 2003 to $118 billion in fiscal 2008, when it also bought giant tech-services company Electronic Data Systems Corp. H-P’s product lines and sales channels ballooned, creating more data for Omega to digest.
Executives often discussed how to fix Omega, said Bob Bacon, who worked in H-P’s sales operation until last year. They “went to heroic lengths” to improve it, he said.
At a 2008 sales meeting in Texas, a senior vice president of sales, Randy Runk, took the stage and promised salespeople they would be paid on time, said a person who was in attendance. Mr. Runk and others at H-P involved with Omega weren’t available for comment, an H-P spokeswoman said.
H-P tried improving Omega with new software intended to ease how it processes sales data, according to company emails.
But after H-P’s fiscal year closed in November 2008, certain data in Omega were incorrect and incomplete, according to the emails.
By March, the H-P employees were apologizing to the sales force for delays. In subsequent emails this year, executives repeatedly promised to have Omega fixed soon. “We recognize the frustration this causes,” wrote H-P sales operations employee Bob Slaby in April. But each month the problems persisted.
In a May 25 email, Mr. Runk called the problem his top priority. “I know the financial hardship this places on all of you,” he wrote to the sales force. “I regret these chronic and persistent problems with Omega sales compensation.”
On June 8, Mr. Slaby emailed that Omega was finally on track. But four days later, he wrote to say, “The system encountered a production failure that has delayed our progress.” In the meantime, he added, “We sincerely appreciate your patience.”
Write to Justin Scheck at justin.scheck@wsj.com
Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page B2
Lets try posting the whole article:
From the second page of today’s Wall Street Journal.
AUGUST 5, 2009
H-P Is on Quest to Fix Software Glitch
By JUSTIN SCHECK
Hewlett-Packard Co. urges customers to replace clunky, older technology with cutting-edge H-P systems that make businesses more efficient. But the technology giant itself still runs outdated software that has frustrated some of its employees.
Problems with an in-house system named Omega have kept about 2,000 of H-P’s more than 23,000 salespeople from getting their proper monthly commissions for much of this year, according to current and former H-P employees and recent company emails reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.
Omega calculates commissions for many salespeople in H-P’s business-technology group, which sells back-office computer equipment. But the system, which H-P inherited in a 2002 acquisition, has struggled to handle H-P’s growing mounds of data.
Omega has repeatedly malfunctioned since November, according to company emails which show that some salespeople have waited as long as seven months to get their correct commissions.
H-P has instead given some salespeople monthly payments equal to 60% or 70% of what they would earn for meeting sales quotas, according to the emails. It is common for a salesperson in the group to make more than $150,000 annually, said former employees and executives.
Omega’s glitches affect just a fraction of H-P’s more than 300,000 workers, and there is no evidence it significantly affects H-P’s business.
“You’d be foolish to think people aren’t frustrated,” said Al Chien, a sales executive who left H-P last year and is now at Dasher Technologies Inc., which resells H-P equipment.
H-P has had problems with Omega, a spokeswoman said, elaborating in a written statement: “We are in the midst of transforming every application in the company to rationalize 6,500 systems down to 1,500, but still have work to do.
“Recently, we experienced a glitch with one of those applications, which resulted in delayed compensation for a small percentage of our global sales team,” the statement continued. “We expect to have this resolved shortly and are committed to ensuring that all of our systems operate flawlessly.”
H-P started using Omega seven years ago when it bought rival Compaq Computer Corp., which itself inherited the technology from its 1998 acquisition of Digital Equipment Corp.
“Over the years, H-P has integrated many sales forces and inherited thousands of complex internal systems,” the spokeswoman’s statement said.
Mark Hurd
Such “legacy” computer systems, which get passed down over the years, are a familiar problem among corporations — including technology companies. Since he took over H-P four years ago, Chief Executive Mark Hurd has made a point of telling customers to update old technology. He highlights H-P’s years-long effort to modernize its own systems at a cost of more than $1 billion.
Omega’s delays result partly from H-P’s success: They have worsened as the tech giant has grown. H-P’s revenue soared from $73 billion in fiscal 2003 to $118 billion in fiscal 2008, when it also bought giant tech-services company Electronic Data Systems Corp. H-P’s product lines and sales channels ballooned, creating more data for Omega to digest.
Executives often discussed how to fix Omega, said Bob Bacon, who worked in H-P’s sales operation until last year. They “went to heroic lengths” to improve it, he said.
At a 2008 sales meeting in Texas, a senior vice president of sales, Randy Runk, took the stage and promised salespeople they would be paid on time, said a person who was in attendance. Mr. Runk and others at H-P involved with Omega weren’t available for comment, an H-P spokeswoman said.
H-P tried improving Omega with new software intended to ease how it processes sales data, according to company emails.
But after H-P’s fiscal year closed in November 2008, certain data in Omega were incorrect and incomplete, according to the emails.
By March, the H-P employees were apologizing to the sales force for delays. In subsequent emails this year, executives repeatedly promised to have Omega fixed soon. “We recognize the frustration this causes,” wrote H-P sales operations employee Bob Slaby in April. But each month the problems persisted.
In a May 25 email, Mr. Runk called the problem his top priority. “I know the financial hardship this places on all of you,” he wrote to the sales force. “I regret these chronic and persistent problems with Omega sales compensation.”
On June 8, Mr. Slaby emailed that Omega was finally on track. But four days later, he wrote to say, “The system encountered a production failure that has delayed our progress.” In the meantime, he added, “We sincerely appreciate your patience.”
Write to Justin Scheck at justin.scheck@wsj.com
Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page B2
Here are a couple of recent articles about the job codes and the additional 30% pay cut for US employees…
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/0805dnbuseds.aed50dfe.html
and made the tv news: http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-beat/HP_s_Huge_Salary_Cuts_Forcing_Out_Old_EDS_Employees_Dallas-Fort_Worth.html
Here are a couple of recent articles about the job codes and the additional 30% pay cut for US employees…
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/0805dnbuseds.aed50dfe.html
and made the tv news: http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-beat/HP_s_Huge_Salary_Cuts_Forcing_Out_Old_EDS_Employees_Dallas-Fort_Worth.html
Here are a couple of articles about HP cutting salaries of EDSers that you might want to check out. The original article was at the NBC affiliate in Dallas, Tx and later ZD Net reported based on what the NBC affiliate had reported. The ZD Net article doesn’t have too many comments but the NBC article does. Maybe we can drive some more traffic and attention to these articles….
“HP’s Huge Salary Cuts Forcing Out Old EDS Employees”
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-beat/HPs-Huge-Salary-Cuts-Forcing-Out-Old-EDS-Employees-52485672.html
“Reports: HP cutting more EDS salaries”
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=22295
Some of the comments are well worth reading. Good points on both sides of the argument.
Here are a couple of articles about HP cutting salaries of EDSers that you might want to check out. The original article was at the NBC affiliate in Dallas, Tx and later ZD Net reported based on what the NBC affiliate had reported. The ZD Net article doesn’t have too many comments but the NBC article does. Maybe we can drive some more traffic and attention to these articles….
“HP’s Huge Salary Cuts Forcing Out Old EDS Employees”
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-beat/HPs-Huge-Salary-Cuts-Forcing-Out-Old-EDS-Employees-52485672.html
“Reports: HP cutting more EDS salaries”
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=22295
Some of the comments are well worth reading. Good points on both sides of the argument.
Any news from AsiaPac HP? Any job cuts? apart from 5% Salary cut.
Regs
Fighter
Any news from AsiaPac HP? Any job cuts? apart from 5% Salary cut.
Regs
Fighter
I’m from APAC, and in our site, there were no job cuts at least in our organization. There have been unconfirmed job cuts in HR and Finance.
There’s no need to cut jobs anyway. Our site has less than 2K headcount scattered across different sites, and since the flat merit increase (why call it an increase?) news, many employees left for IBM. The running joke is now HP has become a “training center” for IBM.
There are 3rd level engineers who were hired for L1/L2 functions in IBM at a much higher pay. It;s hard for us who chose to stay (so far) since the backfill is not alsways available and we have to absorb the additional workload, without rewards of course.
I still wonder how IBM can afford this or if they will sustain the current package they are offering to potential candidates when IBM is not unscathed by the recession and is also mired by the same problems.
Accenture, after laying off workers a few months ago, has rehired some of its WFRed employees and is in a hiring binge again.
I still remember the haughty on-boarding words “we reward results, not effort”. The results are delivered, now where are the rewards.
The problem is, our immediate/2nd line managers can only do so much. Their hands are also tied.
Regarding the financial results, the explanation I got was compared to last year, the earnings are not indicative of growth. Or something like that.
Regarding the christmas shutdown, of course, we in the service lines still have to work, without extra pay, only additional day-offs that we rarely avail. Even if we plan in advance our vacations, we still have to “align” it since the shift schedule is affected and we don;t have enough headcount to cover for vacationing employees. Of course, the situation is different among people who work on flexible hours.
omega is a joke, at least for non-P&G accounts.
HP is a responsible corporate citizen
http://www.itworld.com/tech-amp-society/73389/hewlett-packard-responsible-business-award-goes-project-my-world
HP is a responsible corporate citizen
http://www.itworld.com/tech-amp-society/73389/hewlett-packard-responsible-business-award-goes-project-my-world
I have found Damian’s initial article and all the following responses interesting. It appears that a good many of the replies are from folk not living in the US. I live in MI and worked for EDS for 10 years before I received my “walking papers” last December. However, even before the buyout, all the comments made regarding HP could have been made of EDS and I’m beginning to think it is true of “Corporate America” all together.
EDS kept touting their rhetoric regarding “People Care”, how we – the employees – were their most important part of the company. In the last five years of my employment with EDS, it became very evident they were just spouting words, because there were no actions to back it up. Even with glowing performance reports, I became very familiar with the little “side shuffle dance” when asked when and why I had no salary action (raise) coming my way. It was usually “a freeze on salary raises” or some such reason. I worked in IT, which was treated entirely different from the Sales departments. Put an “S” in front of the word “HIT” and that is how we were treated. The demands on our time for work became something like 25 X 8. There was no longer anything similar to a 40 hr. work week and we were very rarely compensated for the sacrifices and hard work we put in project after project. It became “expected”.
When HP bought EDS, we were told that there would be a workforce reduction of 24,500 jobs over three years – another BS story. It really became apparent that a “Chop Shop on EDS” was in place, and it was happening within a years time frame – not the 3 years that was initially communicated. Of course, there was no rhyme or reason to those selected – EDS was already at “bare bones” – because it had nothing to do with being on a billable project (that was my case – my project was billable into mid 2009 and I was the team lead) or being “dead wood”.
To this day, however, after the initial shock and hurt of being let go, I realize how blessed I am. I knew that day I would not be working until the wee hours of the morning to make an inhuman project deadline – nor would I have to the next day, or the next…
I was given 60 days to find another job within HP or EDS, an HP company, but I didn’t bother. I knew I did not want to go back to a job that took my soul and gave nothing back. I am now looking to jobs in the private sector as they appear to have the employer to employee loyalty relationship in place and back up their “People are our best asset” with the actions that used to exist back in the 1980s.
I honestly feel sorry for the people still working at HP or EDS, and HP company because I know it has only become worse since I was let go. I do not miss it for a moment. My life is once again enjoyable to live and I have balance between work and life outside work. I can not believe “we” (employees) have rolled over and are taking what is being dished out to us. What happened to “we the ‘grunts (basic employees)’ uniting and saying “WE WILL NOT TAKE THIS ANYMORE”"?
If there’s ever been a time for protest, taking action – revolution, I’d say the time is NOW!
Or, we can continue to lay down and “take it”….it’s only going to get worse.
I have found Damian’s initial article and all the following responses interesting. It appears that a good many of the replies are from folk not living in the US. I live in MI and worked for EDS for 10 years before I received my “walking papers” last December. However, even before the buyout, all the comments made regarding HP could have been made of EDS and I’m beginning to think it is true of “Corporate America” all together.
EDS kept touting their rhetoric regarding “People Care”, how we – the employees – were their most important part of the company. In the last five years of my employment with EDS, it became very evident they were just spouting words, because there were no actions to back it up. Even with glowing performance reports, I became very familiar with the little “side shuffle dance” when asked when and why I had no salary action (raise) coming my way. It was usually “a freeze on salary raises” or some such reason. I worked in IT, which was treated entirely different from the Sales departments. Put an “S” in front of the word “HIT” and that is how we were treated. The demands on our time for work became something like 25 X 8. There was no longer anything similar to a 40 hr. work week and we were very rarely compensated for the sacrifices and hard work we put in project after project. It became “expected”.
When HP bought EDS, we were told that there would be a workforce reduction of 24,500 jobs over three years – another BS story. It really became apparent that a “Chop Shop on EDS” was in place, and it was happening within a years time frame – not the 3 years that was initially communicated. Of course, there was no rhyme or reason to those selected – EDS was already at “bare bones” – because it had nothing to do with being on a billable project (that was my case – my project was billable into mid 2009 and I was the team lead) or being “dead wood”.
To this day, however, after the initial shock and hurt of being let go, I realize how blessed I am. I knew that day I would not be working until the wee hours of the morning to make an inhuman project deadline – nor would I have to the next day, or the next…
I was given 60 days to find another job within HP or EDS, an HP company, but I didn’t bother. I knew I did not want to go back to a job that took my soul and gave nothing back. I am now looking to jobs in the private sector as they appear to have the employer to employee loyalty relationship in place and back up their “People are our best asset” with the actions that used to exist back in the 1980s.
I honestly feel sorry for the people still working at HP or EDS, and HP company because I know it has only become worse since I was let go. I do not miss it for a moment. My life is once again enjoyable to live and I have balance between work and life outside work. I can not believe “we” (employees) have rolled over and are taking what is being dished out to us. What happened to “we the ‘grunts (basic employees)’ uniting and saying “WE WILL NOT TAKE THIS ANYMORE”"?
If there’s ever been a time for protest, taking action – revolution, I’d say the time is NOW!
Or, we can continue to lay down and “take it”….it’s only going to get worse.
Has anyone else been explotated by the job code changes?
Has anyone else been explotated by the job code changes?
William Shatner (Chaptain Kirk) and Greenpeace ask HP to live up to promises made about use of toxins in HP products.
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/hp-reminder-28-07-09
Several EDS OSers in Germany will be leaving EDS (an HP company) today. An agreement reached between management and the works council after the strike was that up to 500 people would leave, with several incentives for those agreeing to leave voluntarily and that mgmt could get rid of up to 300 people (maximum) but if more volunteers left that was less people that mgmt could kick out. I’m wondering how many will be leaving today and what the company will look like with all those people gone. To those leaving us today I wish you all the best.
William Shatner (Chaptain Kirk) and Greenpeace ask HP to live up to promises made about use of toxins in HP products.
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/hp-reminder-28-07-09
Several EDS OSers in Germany will be leaving EDS (an HP company) today. An agreement reached between management and the works council after the strike was that up to 500 people would leave, with several incentives for those agreeing to leave voluntarily and that mgmt could get rid of up to 300 people (maximum) but if more volunteers left that was less people that mgmt could kick out. I’m wondering how many will be leaving today and what the company will look like with all those people gone. To those leaving us today I wish you all the best.
I just left HP on my own after a 9 year stint. Bravo Damian for the work you are doing. I am boycotting all HP made products and services. HP and Mark Hurd benefit from fear and spreading FUD. 42.5 million and you claim you took a 20% pay cut? Sorry. I will not reward this behavior. I will not bring kids into the world to work in the modern day hacienda. I am in the process of making competitive solutions to HP products for their soon to be ex enterprise customers. The world outside of HP is a much healthier place.
Same goes for me…In my new job outside HP, I dissuaded all my customers from buying HP, citing poor service, etc to them.. To be honest, I won’t want to be near an HP machine anymore!
Anyhow, the world outside HP is alot prettier than within the abyss of HP…5 months since leaving, I count that as my bestest decision ever.
I just left HP on my own after a 9 year stint. Bravo Damian for the work you are doing. I am boycotting all HP made products and services. HP and Mark Hurd benefit from fear and spreading FUD. 42.5 million and you claim you took a 20% pay cut? Sorry. I will not reward this behavior. I will not bring kids into the world to work in the modern day hacienda. I am in the process of making competitive solutions to HP products for their soon to be ex enterprise customers. The world outside of HP is a much healthier place.
Same goes for me…In my new job outside HP, I dissuaded all my customers from buying HP, citing poor service, etc to them.. To be honest, I won’t want to be near an HP machine anymore!
Anyhow, the world outside HP is alot prettier than within the abyss of HP…5 months since leaving, I count that as my bestest decision ever.
I heard an interesting rumor! Good news, downsizing has been slowed at HP. The reason is, so many people have been quiting that people have been getting recycled in to other jobs. The rumor is that over 500 people were placed last month!!!!!
It’s only thinly disguised as good news. The reality is that employment conditions in Mark Hurd’s HP are so bad that people are leaving in droves (and he doesn’t have to pay them out), probably only slowed by the current employment market being tough. Equilibrium will be achieved sooner or later and the investment word will wake up to a seriously diminished HP, where the expertise is gone, and service is third rate.
I was being sarcastic! The good news is people are wising up and quiting!
I heard an interesting rumor! Good news, downsizing has been slowed at HP. The reason is, so many people have been quiting that people have been getting recycled in to other jobs. The rumor is that over 500 people were placed last month!!!!!
It’s only thinly disguised as good news. The reality is that employment conditions in Mark Hurd’s HP are so bad that people are leaving in droves (and he doesn’t have to pay them out), probably only slowed by the current employment market being tough. Equilibrium will be achieved sooner or later and the investment word will wake up to a seriously diminished HP, where the expertise is gone, and service is third rate.
I was being sarcastic! The good news is people are wising up and quiting!
HP is at it again. The recently announce the “alignment” of job code between EDS employees and HP’s job codes. The results? If you are above the salary cap for HP’s job code that you are placed in, you take a pay cut. Some people are facing cuts of greater than 20%.
If you are below the bottom of the job code’s salary range? Nothing. No pay increase to “align” you.
There is no “alignment” here. Just another scheme to bilk employees out of their salary to feed Mark Hurd’s greedy appetite.
My EDS/HP job code “alignment” happened 7/31 (funny how they always seem to do their dirty deeds on Fridays). In addition to the recent 5% paycut we took and then the 10% temporary cut in June, they are now going to cut my pay an additional 25%! This has got to be the most humiliating, insulting experience of my IT career. Despite losing over half of our group, I have not ever missed an SLA or ever even had a mediocre performance review, all have been excellent or exceptional. This company has the nerve to say they “work together to create a culture of inclusion built on trust, respect and dignity for all”…What a joke! This so called “alignment” is unfair and an absolute ATROSITY built on lies and greed.
This company does not value its employees, just how their numbers look. This ‘alignment’ is nothing but the latest smoke screen for yet another pay cut. In addition to this, the layoffs continue as well. What goes around comes around! When this economy picks up, I predict there will be a mass exodus. If you aren’t currently looking for another job, you need to start.
Are you absolutely sure they are reducing your pay, or are they just adjusting your job’s position in the pay bands?
Yes, the pay is being reduced in the realignment. No upward realignment; only a downward spiral further into the rabbit hole.
Hell hole
They say they are adjusting our pay to the “pay bands”. But amazingly, the pay is only being reduced. No one’s pay has been increased if it is below the band. Also, some of the job codes/titles that some groups were aligned to are highly dubious. Jobs at EDS that were highly technical are now matched to “technical services” roles, which are not much more than service desk titles, with service desk pay to match.
I’d like to hear from anyone who has had a salary increase as a result of this “realignment”. I bet you are right – no one gets a raise.
I receieve HP’s management communications and believe me, the only mention in them is how to handle employee’s responses to pay reductions. That’s what it’s all about. Adding insult to injury, some of the “coaching notes” basically tell you to refer the employee to Employee Counseling Services if they’re really upset.
My senior managers comment was that we tell staff to like it, lump it or leave. Personally, I’m leaving. 3rd interview next week, position pays more than my EDS salary before the HP 5% reduction. Wish me luck!
HP is at it again. The recently announce the “alignment” of job code between EDS employees and HP’s job codes. The results? If you are above the salary cap for HP’s job code that you are placed in, you take a pay cut. Some people are facing cuts of greater than 20%.
If you are below the bottom of the job code’s salary range? Nothing. No pay increase to “align” you.
There is no “alignment” here. Just another scheme to bilk employees out of their salary to feed Mark Hurd’s greedy appetite.
My EDS/HP job code “alignment” happened 7/31 (funny how they always seem to do their dirty deeds on Fridays). In addition to the recent 5% paycut we took and then the 10% temporary cut in June, they are now going to cut my pay an additional 25%! This has got to be the most humiliating, insulting experience of my IT career. Despite losing over half of our group, I have not ever missed an SLA or ever even had a mediocre performance review, all have been excellent or exceptional. This company has the nerve to say they “work together to create a culture of inclusion built on trust, respect and dignity for all”…What a joke! This so called “alignment” is unfair and an absolute ATROSITY built on lies and greed.
This company does not value its employees, just how their numbers look. This ‘alignment’ is nothing but the latest smoke screen for yet another pay cut. In addition to this, the layoffs continue as well. What goes around comes around! When this economy picks up, I predict there will be a mass exodus. If you aren’t currently looking for another job, you need to start.
Are you absolutely sure they are reducing your pay, or are they just adjusting your job’s position in the pay bands?
Yes, the pay is being reduced in the realignment. No upward realignment; only a downward spiral further into the rabbit hole.
Hell hole
They say they are adjusting our pay to the “pay bands”. But amazingly, the pay is only being reduced. No one’s pay has been increased if it is below the band. Also, some of the job codes/titles that some groups were aligned to are highly dubious. Jobs at EDS that were highly technical are now matched to “technical services” roles, which are not much more than service desk titles, with service desk pay to match.
I’d like to hear from anyone who has had a salary increase as a result of this “realignment”. I bet you are right – no one gets a raise.
I receieve HP’s management communications and believe me, the only mention in them is how to handle employee’s responses to pay reductions. That’s what it’s all about. Adding insult to injury, some of the “coaching notes” basically tell you to refer the employee to Employee Counseling Services if they’re really upset.
My senior managers comment was that we tell staff to like it, lump it or leave. Personally, I’m leaving. 3rd interview next week, position pays more than my EDS salary before the HP 5% reduction. Wish me luck!
I found this article dated Nov 2008. Someone tried to kill himself because he got retrenched. This goes to show how bad things are getting in Mark Hurd’s Huge Prison…
http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/business/soa/EDS-black-day-as-worker-attempts-suicide/0,139023166,339293418,00.htm
I found this article dated Nov 2008. Someone tried to kill himself because he got retrenched. This goes to show how bad things are getting in Mark Hurd’s Huge Prison…
http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/business/soa/EDS-black-day-as-worker-attempts-suicide/0,139023166,339293418,00.htm
Colleagues at EDS Germany have now gone back to work after a period of strike action. EDS-HP have made concessions to staff based in Germany (I don’t know the detail).
Proof that the only constructive dialogue that rank and file employees can have with Mark Hurds HP is through withdrawing labour.
Strike action is coming to EDS UK. I would urge all my UK colleagues to get involved by either joining the UNITE or PCS unions.
http://www.unitetheunion.com/sectors/it__communications/unite_in_your_company/unite__hp-eds.aspx
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/commercial_sector/eds/index.cfm
Together we can put an end to this nonsense.
Colleagues at EDS Germany have now gone back to work after a period of strike action. EDS-HP have made concessions to staff based in Germany (I don’t know the detail).
Proof that the only constructive dialogue that rank and file employees can have with Mark Hurds HP is through withdrawing labour.
Strike action is coming to EDS UK. I would urge all my UK colleagues to get involved by either joining the UNITE or PCS unions.
http://www.unitetheunion.com/sectors/it__communications/unite_in_your_company/unite__hp-eds.aspx
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/commercial_sector/eds/index.cfm
Together we can put an end to this nonsense.
In addition to my prior comment, if you see the “Big Picture” you’ll notice the pattern.
Is like a balance, First world countries no accepting the 5% paycut while Third world countries accepting it (even though our salaries are being automatically reduced by economic forces like constant devaluation). Basically you’re telling CEOs in general from all Global Companies to keep laying out your jobs to the 3rd world. At the end you’ll have to accept poverty and enslavement this is where we’re heading, the so called New World Order. A new system of human enslavement. Sad :’(
The even bigger picture is that consumers like me, business owners who invest in IT products and services, become extremely annoyed with the abysmal service we receive from 3rd world centers and boycott companies like HP as a result.
The other difference is that we have always had the choice between poverty and enslavement, or freedom and prosperity, and we have chosen the latter. Our ingenuity and tenacity as a society, our voice, and our actions will result in companies like HP being shunned in favor of businesses with high integrity who employ people locally. As far as my business is concerned HP is blacklisted – we don’t, and never will, need them.
Damian,
I am not sure about your assertion”we have chosen the latter”. What I see in HP North America is that we did not have even the option to reject the salary decrease; we had to accept “as is”. The reason why companies like HP can proceed as they want is because there is a sickening feeling among IT companies (in their benefit) that having even thinking about having a professional Union to protect our rights, is just unthinkable and despicable. For an unknown reason any action related to an Union is seen suspiciously. People in the IT industry in North America have being educated that UNION = sin = unfaithfulness, which is the perfect equation for our magnanimous employers. (This kind of social submissive behaviour is unacceptable in the majority of European countries for historical reasons).
So, as I mentioned above not sure if your statement corresponds to the reality at the present moment.
Yeah, I can see it from your point of view, but I am in Australia, a working democracy where, although seriously challenged by the previous government (to their demise), collective bargaining (often facilitated by unions) is a right, a right that is not skewed by some bogus “red under the bed” bullshit that has been fostered on you guys by generations of silver tails who use it to exploit you.
The one thing that would keep Mark Hurd awake at night would be the fear that the US workforce wakes up to the fact that collective bargaining, with the threat of withholding labor, gets results in favor of the employee.
You can see how seriously disadvantaged you US employees are because of this belief. You’ve been brainwashed. Get over it, and do something about it.
Given his preoccupation with shareholders can you imagine how much pressure you could bring to bare by walking out in unison with strong negotiators leading the charge?
If Mark Hurd was in fact ethical, if he had any honor, there would be no need for unions. Unfortunately that’s not the case.
Isn’t it ironic that, in the land of the free, you are not free to bargain as a collective in the US IT industry?
In addition to my prior comment, if you see the “Big Picture” you’ll notice the pattern.
Is like a balance, First world countries no accepting the 5% paycut while Third world countries accepting it (even though our salaries are being automatically reduced by economic forces like constant devaluation). Basically you’re telling CEOs in general from all Global Companies to keep laying out your jobs to the 3rd world. At the end you’ll have to accept poverty and enslavement this is where we’re heading, the so called New World Order. A new system of human enslavement. Sad :’(
The even bigger picture is that consumers like me, business owners who invest in IT products and services, become extremely annoyed with the abysmal service we receive from 3rd world centers and boycott companies like HP as a result.
The other difference is that we have always had the choice between poverty and enslavement, or freedom and prosperity, and we have chosen the latter. Our ingenuity and tenacity as a society, our voice, and our actions will result in companies like HP being shunned in favor of businesses with high integrity who employ people locally. As far as my business is concerned HP is blacklisted – we don’t, and never will, need them.
Damian,
I am not sure about your assertion”we have chosen the latter”. What I see in HP North America is that we did not have even the option to reject the salary decrease; we had to accept “as is”. The reason why companies like HP can proceed as they want is because there is a sickening feeling among IT companies (in their benefit) that having even thinking about having a professional Union to protect our rights, is just unthinkable and despicable. For an unknown reason any action related to an Union is seen suspiciously. People in the IT industry in North America have being educated that UNION = sin = unfaithfulness, which is the perfect equation for our magnanimous employers. (This kind of social submissive behaviour is unacceptable in the majority of European countries for historical reasons).
So, as I mentioned above not sure if your statement corresponds to the reality at the present moment.
Yeah, I can see it from your point of view, but I am in Australia, a working democracy where, although seriously challenged by the previous government (to their demise), collective bargaining (often facilitated by unions) is a right, a right that is not skewed by some bogus “red under the bed” bullshit that has been fostered on you guys by generations of silver tails who use it to exploit you.
The one thing that would keep Mark Hurd awake at night would be the fear that the US workforce wakes up to the fact that collective bargaining, with the threat of withholding labor, gets results in favor of the employee.
You can see how seriously disadvantaged you US employees are because of this belief. You’ve been brainwashed. Get over it, and do something about it.
Given his preoccupation with shareholders can you imagine how much pressure you could bring to bare by walking out in unison with strong negotiators leading the charge?
If Mark Hurd was in fact ethical, if he had any honor, there would be no need for unions. Unfortunately that’s not the case.
Isn’t it ironic that, in the land of the free, you are not free to bargain as a collective in the US IT industry?
I’m living the opposite side of the situation you’re living. I’m a HP Employee in a Third World Country (I’d rather prefer no to mention where I’m living), we also were told to vote to choose either to accept or no the 5% reduction, while at the same time were told these economic times are really tough, difficult. We’ve seen lots of layouts in the country in general besides unemployment and poverty is HUGE in this kind of countries. Our currency has dramatically felt by 30%, thus making us even more cheaper, actually our salaries by this simple fact was reduced automatically by 30%. Our coin was about 10 per 1 dollar, about 0.1 dollars now it is 14 per 1 dollar, about 0.07 dollars. In addition to this situation we were asked to take the 5%, while most of the prices in general for everything were growing since my country doesn’t produce almost anything with national brands, most of the brands are from US companies and then the prices are based in US dollars.
Here most of the employees are accepting the 5% reduction, even most of us probably won’t have enough money to live well, probably we’ll be using more our credit cards and then increasing our debts even more and then (ergo) devaluating more our currency due national debt. Many people have a real fear of losing their jobs because if you loose this underpaid job probably won’t find any job outside. So also we were told that many opportunities could be arriving at HP (the company) to this side of the world, most of the jobs you’ve been losing would come here and this could represent great opportunities of having a better standard of living. So basically most of third world countries people think: “If we accept the 5% reduction we could get a better job from first world lost jobs”. Since many of the Fixed Costs of the company are in Third world countries, the company is calculating actually a 2-3% of effective savings. A 2-3% of increase in MH millionare bonus.
Yes, there’s the dilemma, we certainly wish continued prosperity on the so called 3rd world, but not at the cost to our own.
I’m living the opposite side of the situation you’re living. I’m a HP Employee in a Third World Country (I’d rather prefer no to mention where I’m living), we also were told to vote to choose either to accept or no the 5% reduction, while at the same time were told these economic times are really tough, difficult. We’ve seen lots of layouts in the country in general besides unemployment and poverty is HUGE in this kind of countries. Our currency has dramatically felt by 30%, thus making us even more cheaper, actually our salaries by this simple fact was reduced automatically by 30%. Our coin was about 10 per 1 dollar, about 0.1 dollars now it is 14 per 1 dollar, about 0.07 dollars. In addition to this situation we were asked to take the 5%, while most of the prices in general for everything were growing since my country doesn’t produce almost anything with national brands, most of the brands are from US companies and then the prices are based in US dollars.
Here most of the employees are accepting the 5% reduction, even most of us probably won’t have enough money to live well, probably we’ll be using more our credit cards and then increasing our debts even more and then (ergo) devaluating more our currency due national debt. Many people have a real fear of losing their jobs because if you loose this underpaid job probably won’t find any job outside. So also we were told that many opportunities could be arriving at HP (the company) to this side of the world, most of the jobs you’ve been losing would come here and this could represent great opportunities of having a better standard of living. So basically most of third world countries people think: “If we accept the 5% reduction we could get a better job from first world lost jobs”. Since many of the Fixed Costs of the company are in Third world countries, the company is calculating actually a 2-3% of effective savings. A 2-3% of increase in MH millionare bonus.
Yes, there’s the dilemma, we certainly wish continued prosperity on the so called 3rd world, but not at the cost to our own.
I am an ex-HP employee from Melbourne, Australia.
I just left HP beginning of this year, and although based on my manager’s annual performance review evaluation i reached the highest score among all my colleagues, apparently my yearly bonus was never planned to be given out to me. The reason is simple, i quit the job in January, whilst the evaluation took place in December to evaluate year 2008 performance. Where the heck did my bonus go? What’s the point of sending a piece of junk email to my inbox saying that I’ve exceeded what was being expected from me, but i know someone else took my bonus away from me.
Now, i agree with all Damian Saunders wrote on his blog. Please, SOMEONE SEND THIS TO MARK HURD, let him read this blog and let this ‘greedy tool’ know that everyone hates him!!!! grrrrrrrr
It’s pretty obvious to me that your bonus went to Mark Hurd himself.
I know from experience how disheartening it can be for a manger. Despite their best efforts at times to follow the company’s guidelines for performance reviews the slap in the face comes when the Mark Hurd machine spits out a number that no matter how you divide it up can’t be fair.
Managers, or line managers, have no input into their own bonus either and usually find themselves in the same boat as you.
I personally recall receiving a budget of $1100 to split amongst something like 14 people. It’s certainly a gut wrenching situation to find yourself in, especially when those people were overdue for remuneration increases due to promotions (in some cases two promotions) and deserved better.
I am an ex-HP employee from Melbourne, Australia.
I just left HP beginning of this year, and although based on my manager’s annual performance review evaluation i reached the highest score among all my colleagues, apparently my yearly bonus was never planned to be given out to me. The reason is simple, i quit the job in January, whilst the evaluation took place in December to evaluate year 2008 performance. Where the heck did my bonus go? What’s the point of sending a piece of junk email to my inbox saying that I’ve exceeded what was being expected from me, but i know someone else took my bonus away from me.
Now, i agree with all Damian Saunders wrote on his blog. Please, SOMEONE SEND THIS TO MARK HURD, let him read this blog and let this ‘greedy tool’ know that everyone hates him!!!! grrrrrrrr
It’s pretty obvious to me that your bonus went to Mark Hurd himself.
I know from experience how disheartening it can be for a manger. Despite their best efforts at times to follow the company’s guidelines for performance reviews the slap in the face comes when the Mark Hurd machine spits out a number that no matter how you divide it up can’t be fair.
Managers, or line managers, have no input into their own bonus either and usually find themselves in the same boat as you.
I personally recall receiving a budget of $1100 to split amongst something like 14 people. It’s certainly a gut wrenching situation to find yourself in, especially when those people were overdue for remuneration increases due to promotions (in some cases two promotions) and deserved better.
Take a look at this short video: it sums up HP’s approach to the EDS acquisition:
HP Restructuring EDS
Take a look at this short video: it sums up HP’s approach to the EDS acquisition:
HP Restructuring EDS
Working for EDS Netherlands; I recently had a talk with one of our HR managers.
We also had our 5% paycut recently. This HR manager told me that; 4 days before the deadline; so far 2 people (out of about 1,300 or so) have accepted this paycut…or in other words; about 99.99% is showing a clear message to our beloved Mark
2! That’s so very good. If this the same in every nation in Europe it show a very strong message. If only 2 accept then Mark should not implement for anyone. Anyone know about the rest of Europe? Maybe we can ask GARY BUDZINSKI as he will be watching or so he say. Why is Gary still in HP?
Working for EDS Netherlands; I recently had a talk with one of our HR managers.
We also had our 5% paycut recently. This HR manager told me that; 4 days before the deadline; so far 2 people (out of about 1,300 or so) have accepted this paycut…or in other words; about 99.99% is showing a clear message to our beloved Mark
2! That’s so very good. If this the same in every nation in Europe it show a very strong message. If only 2 accept then Mark should not implement for anyone. Anyone know about the rest of Europe? Maybe we can ask GARY BUDZINSKI as he will be watching or so he say. Why is Gary still in HP?
Ha ha. On the company external Ethics website I found the following statement:
———-
The board has ten members, with Mark Hurd serving as chairman, chief executive officer and president. The other nine members are “independent directors.”
———-
I have NOT added the quotes, this is verbatim. King Mark and his band of yes-men!
A sense of humour or a sly protest from the PR folks?
Ha ha. On the company external Ethics website I found the following statement:
———-
The board has ten members, with Mark Hurd serving as chairman, chief executive officer and president. The other nine members are “independent directors.”
———-
I have NOT added the quotes, this is verbatim. King Mark and his band of yes-men!
A sense of humour or a sly protest from the PR folks?
I loved your article – you say so many things I want to say only more eloquently. I am an EDSer and have been asking questions about ethicality of the company’s behaviour without any result. Three more points to add to your article about Corporate Ethics:
1. Is it right for a company to self-regulate its ethical behaviour? If I raise an Ethics Violation against HP, I know it will be rejected, and probably followed by an instant dismissal, because the body that decides on ethical behaviour is chaired by the Unethical One himself! It’s a bit like asking Adolf Hitler if it was ethical of him to invade Poland.
2. Last week we were all “invited” to accept a pay cut of 5% (“for the good of the company” was the phrase that appeared in a global communication shortly before the actual invitation was sent – to tempt the masses). I have written confirmation from the company that, if I (or anyone else) accepts a pay cut, we will STILL not be protected from any compulsory redundancy! In my opinion, this “invitation” to accept a pay cut is an act of grand deception: there is no reference in the invitation to employees on what they will get in return for their sacrifice. I would have appreciated some honesty in the invitation eg., “In order to reduce our costs of making you redundant, we would appreciate it if you would allow us to reduce your salary by 5% and, by the way, your pension will also be reduced by at least the same amount thereby saving us even more money.”
3. One observation from an “All-Employee Meeting” held on June 17th and hosted by Anne Livermore, Senior VP of Technology Services Group (that has absorbed EDS) and several other senior HP and EDS Leaders. Much of the meeting focussed on the “exciting opportunites” that abound in HP at the moment in relation to the “cost structure optimisation” initiative. Well, I am sorry to say that I was not very excited at the prospect of having my “cost structure optimised” because the only opportunity that this would present is to see the dole queue for the first time in my life. The meeting reminded me of a group of little schoolchildren running around the playground with a new toy – in this case, a toy that resembles an “automatic mugging device” – and wondering why no-one feels as excited as they! The whole show was an excellent demonstration of “Corporate Asperger’s Syndrome” (inability to empathise with others). The scariest part of the meeting was when Robb Rasmussen announced, hardly able to contain his excitement, that there will be a 10% year-on-year cost reduction target FOR EVER. So, all HP employees can look forward to redundancies continuing indefinitely with nothing in return. At the same time, there is a second Corporate target to increase revenue – so HP plans to grow revenue and cut costs (through redundancies) for ever and ever. Taking these targets to a logical conclusion, HP will grow and cut costs to the point where it has no employees left to sell the products or deliver services. Talk about “cloud cuckoo-land”!
I would urge your readers to test HP’s ethicality by reading the false claims that the company makes for themselves on the publicly-available site here:
HP Ethics Site
Readers can report ethics violations from this site. If enough of us submit them, then they will listen – or at least be forced to respond.
Yeah, exactly right about Mark Hurd’s so called ethics.
I believe, and I think it’s obvious, that in Mark Hurd’s world, the word ethics is misused, and what he is doing is merely compliance, like; what do we need to do to make sure we’re operating just on the right side of the law in each country we do business, so we can get away with being completely unscrupulous, whilst playing lip service to ethics.
The word ethical implies conforming to accepted standards of social or professional behavior. That is such a nebulous definition really isn’t it? But, I think we are the ones who determine socially acceptable and we have a responsibility to call Mark Hurd on it. A company that publicly professes one set of values, then operates in direct contradiction to those values, is not being ethical at all.
Wankers like Anne Livermore have been spouting words like “exciting opportunities” like parrots for years. Exciting opportunities like what exactly?
The “exciting opportunity” to work your way up in the organization, but not get a pay increase for the promotion despite having to work more and take on more responsibility?
The “exciting opportunity” to work for 12 hours and get paid for 7.5?
The “exciting opportunity” to know that you could loose your job any day simply because the numbers didn’t add up and you were next on the list – the so called “dead wood” is long gone?
The “exciting opportunity” to work as a manager when you have absolutely no autonomy whatsoever and are merely executing decisions that were made for you and without regard to your input. To work in management teams filled with “survivors” when those people with any real management, leadership or entrepreneurial zest have long since left in disgust?
The “exciting opportunity” to work as the public face of HP when the service quality has gone down the toilet due to offshoring, with the subsequent loss of true expertise and experience built up over years.
The “exciting opportunity” to take a pay cut despite the company being extremely profitable and sitting on billions of dollars in reserve cash?
The “exciting opportunity” to see your executive getting huge bonuses and obscene pay checks in reward for you being exploited, having the real value of your salary diminished, for contributing towards the economic hardship your country is experiencing by adding to the unemployment rate, and diminishing the available job pool?
…and so on…no thanks
At the Hurd level it is a simple equation, ethical = legal. If it is legal it is ethical. And so it is with layoffs, if they can do it legally, remaining inside the law with respect to WARN, age discrimination and so on, they will do it.
The reason HP, or any other such organization, enforces their ethics on the workers is to serve executives directives on controlling the work force. By having the workers act ethically it gives executives the leeway to act unethically, not having to worry about the underlings. And at the same time executives use the ethics policies as a publicity tool to the press making Wall St. believe that it is an upstanding company, worthy of investing.
As an upstanding citizen, I would always take the ethical path, and I believe the vast majority of us would. Begs the question of the few at the executive level. Does one need to climb the unethical ladder to reach the top?
the so called “dead wood” is long gone?
Unfortunately this is totally incorrect. The “dead wood” has however been confined to executive offices.
Good point…I overlooked that didn’t I?
Why do management types assume that average employees care about Cost Structure. We care about doing our job to the best of our ability while using plain English. Cost Structure Optimization? You’ve got to be kidding me.
And why does management seem to attract the sort of people you really don’t want to spend any time with inside or outside of work. It seems to attract insufferable little bullies with insecurities which they attempt to tackle through bullying. Now, there are some excellent managers, even in HP but the number of idiots with MBAs has increased dramatically.
Dear managers,
Please could you give two presentations in future. One in plain English for 80% of the workforce and the other in business double-speak for your playground bully clique.
With thanks,
Everyone
In closing. I don’t know of anyone in UK&I that accepted the pay cut! Up yours HP
Geoff
(awaiting the next round of workforce optimization)
I loved your article – you say so many things I want to say only more eloquently. I am an EDSer and have been asking questions about ethicality of the company’s behaviour without any result. Three more points to add to your article about Corporate Ethics:
1. Is it right for a company to self-regulate its ethical behaviour? If I raise an Ethics Violation against HP, I know it will be rejected, and probably followed by an instant dismissal, because the body that decides on ethical behaviour is chaired by the Unethical One himself! It’s a bit like asking Adolf Hitler if it was ethical of him to invade Poland.
2. Last week we were all “invited” to accept a pay cut of 5% (“for the good of the company” was the phrase that appeared in a global communication shortly before the actual invitation was sent – to tempt the masses). I have written confirmation from the company that, if I (or anyone else) accepts a pay cut, we will STILL not be protected from any compulsory redundancy! In my opinion, this “invitation” to accept a pay cut is an act of grand deception: there is no reference in the invitation to employees on what they will get in return for their sacrifice. I would have appreciated some honesty in the invitation eg., “In order to reduce our costs of making you redundant, we would appreciate it if you would allow us to reduce your salary by 5% and, by the way, your pension will also be reduced by at least the same amount thereby saving us even more money.”
3. One observation from an “All-Employee Meeting” held on June 17th and hosted by Anne Livermore, Senior VP of Technology Services Group (that has absorbed EDS) and several other senior HP and EDS Leaders. Much of the meeting focussed on the “exciting opportunites” that abound in HP at the moment in relation to the “cost structure optimisation” initiative. Well, I am sorry to say that I was not very excited at the prospect of having my “cost structure optimised” because the only opportunity that this would present is to see the dole queue for the first time in my life. The meeting reminded me of a group of little schoolchildren running around the playground with a new toy – in this case, a toy that resembles an “automatic mugging device” – and wondering why no-one feels as excited as they! The whole show was an excellent demonstration of “Corporate Asperger’s Syndrome” (inability to empathise with others). The scariest part of the meeting was when Robb Rasmussen announced, hardly able to contain his excitement, that there will be a 10% year-on-year cost reduction target FOR EVER. So, all HP employees can look forward to redundancies continuing indefinitely with nothing in return. At the same time, there is a second Corporate target to increase revenue – so HP plans to grow revenue and cut costs (through redundancies) for ever and ever. Taking these targets to a logical conclusion, HP will grow and cut costs to the point where it has no employees left to sell the products or deliver services. Talk about “cloud cuckoo-land”!
I would urge your readers to test HP’s ethicality by reading the false claims that the company makes for themselves on the publicly-available site here:
HP Ethics Site
Readers can report ethics violations from this site. If enough of us submit them, then they will listen – or at least be forced to respond.
Yeah, exactly right about Mark Hurd’s so called ethics.
I believe, and I think it’s obvious, that in Mark Hurd’s world, the word ethics is misused, and what he is doing is merely compliance, like; what do we need to do to make sure we’re operating just on the right side of the law in each country we do business, so we can get away with being completely unscrupulous, whilst playing lip service to ethics.
The word ethical implies conforming to accepted standards of social or professional behavior. That is such a nebulous definition really isn’t it? But, I think we are the ones who determine socially acceptable and we have a responsibility to call Mark Hurd on it. A company that publicly professes one set of values, then operates in direct contradiction to those values, is not being ethical at all.
Wankers like Anne Livermore have been spouting words like “exciting opportunities” like parrots for years. Exciting opportunities like what exactly?
The “exciting opportunity” to work your way up in the organization, but not get a pay increase for the promotion despite having to work more and take on more responsibility?
The “exciting opportunity” to work for 12 hours and get paid for 7.5?
The “exciting opportunity” to know that you could loose your job any day simply because the numbers didn’t add up and you were next on the list – the so called “dead wood” is long gone?
The “exciting opportunity” to work as a manager when you have absolutely no autonomy whatsoever and are merely executing decisions that were made for you and without regard to your input. To work in management teams filled with “survivors” when those people with any real management, leadership or entrepreneurial zest have long since left in disgust?
The “exciting opportunity” to work as the public face of HP when the service quality has gone down the toilet due to offshoring, with the subsequent loss of true expertise and experience built up over years.
The “exciting opportunity” to take a pay cut despite the company being extremely profitable and sitting on billions of dollars in reserve cash?
The “exciting opportunity” to see your executive getting huge bonuses and obscene pay checks in reward for you being exploited, having the real value of your salary diminished, for contributing towards the economic hardship your country is experiencing by adding to the unemployment rate, and diminishing the available job pool?
…and so on…no thanks
At the Hurd level it is a simple equation, ethical = legal. If it is legal it is ethical. And so it is with layoffs, if they can do it legally, remaining inside the law with respect to WARN, age discrimination and so on, they will do it.
The reason HP, or any other such organization, enforces their ethics on the workers is to serve executives directives on controlling the work force. By having the workers act ethically it gives executives the leeway to act unethically, not having to worry about the underlings. And at the same time executives use the ethics policies as a publicity tool to the press making Wall St. believe that it is an upstanding company, worthy of investing.
As an upstanding citizen, I would always take the ethical path, and I believe the vast majority of us would. Begs the question of the few at the executive level. Does one need to climb the unethical ladder to reach the top?
the so called “dead wood” is long gone?
Unfortunately this is totally incorrect. The “dead wood” has however been confined to executive offices.
Good point…I overlooked that didn’t I?
Why do management types assume that average employees care about Cost Structure. We care about doing our job to the best of our ability while using plain English. Cost Structure Optimization? You’ve got to be kidding me.
And why does management seem to attract the sort of people you really don’t want to spend any time with inside or outside of work. It seems to attract insufferable little bullies with insecurities which they attempt to tackle through bullying. Now, there are some excellent managers, even in HP but the number of idiots with MBAs has increased dramatically.
Dear managers,
Please could you give two presentations in future. One in plain English for 80% of the workforce and the other in business double-speak for your playground bully clique.
With thanks,
Everyone
In closing. I don’t know of anyone in UK&I that accepted the pay cut! Up yours HP
Geoff
(awaiting the next round of workforce optimization)
As any reader of this blog in the UK will know we got our email offer to take a 5% paycut this week. I am happy to report that I’ve not heard of one person who is even remotely considering a “YES” response. Looks like the workforce in the UK are standing up for themselves… at last!!!
I think everyone who works for HP UK, and probably EDS for that matter, realise that WFR (work force reduction) is now going to be an ongoing part of working at HP, and each one of us has to take the stance that if we get WFR’ed then we’d be as well doing it without getting a cut of 5% upfront.
Great news, I’m looking forward to hearing the outcome of this ‘vote’, looks like it might be a collective ‘up yours’ to Mark Hurds greed.
I’m sure that this will be the case Damian.
Morale is currently very low in the UK, and plunged deeper when people saw the comments made by Gary Budzinski (HP Services VP) when he said that he would be tracking down and penalising those who say “NO” to the 5% pay cut. Maybe in the US Gary, but you cannot get away with this behaviour across the EU. I’m sure Mark Hurd would have wrapped his knuckles for those comments, before swiftly editing the internal webcast – that says it all for me.
As any reader of this blog in the UK will know we got our email offer to take a 5% paycut this week. I am happy to report that I’ve not heard of one person who is even remotely considering a “YES” response. Looks like the workforce in the UK are standing up for themselves… at last!!!
I think everyone who works for HP UK, and probably EDS for that matter, realise that WFR (work force reduction) is now going to be an ongoing part of working at HP, and each one of us has to take the stance that if we get WFR’ed then we’d be as well doing it without getting a cut of 5% upfront.
Great news, I’m looking forward to hearing the outcome of this ‘vote’, looks like it might be a collective ‘up yours’ to Mark Hurds greed.
I’m sure that this will be the case Damian.
Morale is currently very low in the UK, and plunged deeper when people saw the comments made by Gary Budzinski (HP Services VP) when he said that he would be tracking down and penalising those who say “NO” to the 5% pay cut. Maybe in the US Gary, but you cannot get away with this behaviour across the EU. I’m sure Mark Hurd would have wrapped his knuckles for those comments, before swiftly editing the internal webcast – that says it all for me.
Sorry – as well-written as I’m sure your post was, I just couldn’t get past this idea that you somehow have a right to a job. In fact, near as I can tell, you basically write everything from the standpoint that you have some dubious set of rights that you really don’t have.
Why doesn’t HP have “the right to consume earth’s resources?” Are those resources owned by you?
Thanks for calling me on this, as I said at the outset this is just my opinion, and I welcome debate. I have to say I’m quite pragmatic when it comes to the right to a have a job, I believe that, in reality at this moment, that we don’t actually have a right to a job. That’s obvious. But, my question is why not?
I find it quite ironic that, when the foundation of world trade revolves around people’s ability to consume, using money they earn from jobs, that there is no basic human right to a job.
I find it ironic that when the whole premise of our society is to get a good education so that you can go on to get a good job, that when you finally get there you find you don’t actually have a right to a job at all.
I find it ironic that we have one of the world’s largest economies, California, on the brink of issuing IOU’s because it can’t make it’s financial commitments, due I would assume to a large extent to falling state revenues from unemployment, with another 30 states close to doing the same, that we allow the Mark Hurd’s of the world to get away, not only putting off tens of thousands of people, despite being highly profitable, but actually reducing the available job pool buy acquiring and devouring other organizations, with impunity.
You’ve raised the “Atlas Shrugged” scenario, or rather you’ve pointed us to a link as if to say there you go, enough said. That’s a whole other conversation, but you have to remember that Atlas Shrugged is a work of fiction that conveniently sidesteps reality in order to further Ayn Rand’s ultra capitalist philosophy – which I find extremely interesting and was quite passionate about at one stage – and deals with Government gone crazy to the detriment of entrepreneurs. The situation we find ourselves in right now though, is world economic collapse caused by the unregulated free market – the entrepreneurs themselves – indicating that these people can’t be trusted with, and don’t care about, our security when left to their own devices, and that there’s some middle ground between Ayn Rands world and an equitable reality.
As far as some “dubious set of rights” is concerned, I think that the right to fair and equitable treatment as an employee is not a dubious right at all, in fact HP’s published Corporate Values imply that very right. I’m just suggesting that the current HP executive under Mark Hurd are not living up to those values.
Everyone owns the worlds very finite resources – our economic say is our consumer dollar, I’m suggesting that the dollar is spent with companies who have a better track record of treating people fairly, otherwise the consumption of those finite resources is of no socioeconomic benefit to the world as a whole.
I think the issue is a ‘right to respect’. When you devote yourself to a company, and the company is VERY profitable, the company owes you respect, they owe it to you to live up to promised salaries, they owe it to you to live up to a promised retirement. Now if a company is going down then some rules get thrown out, BUT a company doesn’t have a right to award a ceo $40M in bonus while cutting employees salaries and cutting employees levels down to a number where it will be difficult for the company to develop new products for the future – all while making an excellent profit. They also don’t have the right to tell a group of employees they are cutting their salaries an additional 10% for a month so that they can reach double digits profit levels!
Thats why unions are needed, so workers can demand their ‘right to respect’, and if that includes a ‘right to a job’ so be it.
I think Damian is helping bring out many incoherences that are inherent in the present system.
For example, off-shoring hp’s US jobs is a good thing as it increases shareholder value by reducing the overall wage bill…but at the same time, the news yesterday was full of the bad news that the US employment figures are worse than expected. Pushing the “logic” to its extreme, hp could off-shore all US and european jobs, and leave just a handful of people in an office in Delaware. This would massively increase shareholder value by slashing operational costs… but it would have an impact on many communities in the US, particularly due to the knock-on effect on indirect employment, and at the same time remove many potential customers from the market. The US car makers could probably turn themselves round and become very profitable by off-shoring all production activities – but at the same time the US wants to protect employment and buy products manufactured in the US.
Many sites – Boise, Corvallis, Fort Collins etc – were originally manufacturing sites employing many tens of thousands of people. These sites are currently virtually empty and the manufacturing happens off-shore. This has certainly helped profitability, but at the same time has had negative impact on the cities concerned, especially as the knock-on effect can add several non-hp jobs to every hp job lost.
As another example, hp in the US, France, Germany and the UK have been very heavily hit by job cuts – but these are the countries that generate the greatest number of patents worldwide. How does this tie in with the companies stated aims of producing innovative products?
I think it comes down to a debate around the role of a company in society. On the one extreme there’s the US model that says that shareholder value is the only raison d’etre of a company, on the other extreme there’s the communist model where the state owns and controls everything. For me, the ideal model lies somewhere in between.
The idea that shareholder value is the sole driving force for a company comes from a time when the world was very different – the infamous Dodge vs Ford case, which is often quoted, took place in 1919. Is the conclusion – that a business corporation is organized primarily for the profit of the shareholders, as opposed to the community or its employees – still valid 90 years later? Personally I don’t think it’s valid in the current global economy.
ok, well thats a simple statement that doesn’t really have any substance, you saying we don’t have a right to a job. Basically you are correct a person does not have a right to a job. But the reality is, since medieval times in Britain, people have worked for other people, been paid for this and that it how farming, industry, engineering, finance, IT and retail have evolved over 1000 years. Without people having jobs and working for others, this doesn’t happen!, economies don’t work as we understand them to do today.
Now the people employing you need ‘you’ or at least ‘someone’ and you need them!. When the boundaries are moved (and at this time they have Globally) and the employer looks for more and more cheaper ways of getting work done, then workers over time have tried to stand up to this action aswell as for human rights, a fair days pay, health and safety, good working conditions etc, all things that have made for a better quality of life.
Now we either all work for ourselves or we work for companies. The companies have to look after their workers this is the right thing to do, it is the right way for the democratic society we live in.
Going off track, but lets take this a bit further, did the young lad that died the other day in Afghanistan in the war have a right to a job? Does the Nurse and Doctor that might keep you alive one day, have a right to a job? Do they have a right to work in modern hospitals paid for by other hard working peoples taxes, i.e people that work for other people. Did the millions that died in WW2 have a right to be paid for what they were doing so that evil was defeated and you are here today to breath the free air that they gave you with their lives. Would the shareholders and the execs be here and be very rich today, if the young soldiers hadn’t had a right to a job, be paid and give their lives for you. No they wouldn’t.
I’m trying to put this into perspective here, people are losing sight of where we have come from and how we got here, that probably doesn’t matter to you, as you obviously think we don’t have rights. You probably think interventionism is bad, well if a lack of interventionism is how we are here, in the economic state we are in today, then perhaps we need more.
It’s a very simple statement that you made, and as I say, doesn’t really mean anything, but what we do need is for companies who are registered and based in the UK, to have an obligation to look after their workers through good times and bad if possible. BT is a prime example, they once made billions, now they are losing billions but looking for ways of retaining staff through the recession. They are offering to some 25% salary for a year off, short time and other methods of keeping staff and cutting costs.
There are couple of old sayings you might of heard – ‘you look after your own first, then look after others’ and ‘don’t cut off the hand that feeds you’.
Sorry – as well-written as I’m sure your post was, I just couldn’t get past this idea that you somehow have a right to a job. In fact, near as I can tell, you basically write everything from the standpoint that you have some dubious set of rights that you really don’t have.
Why doesn’t HP have “the right to consume earth’s resources?” Are those resources owned by you?
Thanks for calling me on this, as I said at the outset this is just my opinion, and I welcome debate. I have to say I’m quite pragmatic when it comes to the right to a have a job, I believe that, in reality at this moment, that we don’t actually have a right to a job. That’s obvious. But, my question is why not?
I find it quite ironic that, when the foundation of world trade revolves around people’s ability to consume, using money they earn from jobs, that there is no basic human right to a job.
I find it ironic that when the whole premise of our society is to get a good education so that you can go on to get a good job, that when you finally get there you find you don’t actually have a right to a job at all.
I find it ironic that we have one of the world’s largest economies, California, on the brink of issuing IOU’s because it can’t make it’s financial commitments, due I would assume to a large extent to falling state revenues from unemployment, with another 30 states close to doing the same, that we allow the Mark Hurd’s of the world to get away, not only putting off tens of thousands of people, despite being highly profitable, but actually reducing the available job pool buy acquiring and devouring other organizations, with impunity.
You’ve raised the “Atlas Shrugged” scenario, or rather you’ve pointed us to a link as if to say there you go, enough said. That’s a whole other conversation, but you have to remember that Atlas Shrugged is a work of fiction that conveniently sidesteps reality in order to further Ayn Rand’s ultra capitalist philosophy – which I find extremely interesting and was quite passionate about at one stage – and deals with Government gone crazy to the detriment of entrepreneurs. The situation we find ourselves in right now though, is world economic collapse caused by the unregulated free market – the entrepreneurs themselves – indicating that these people can’t be trusted with, and don’t care about, our security when left to their own devices, and that there’s some middle ground between Ayn Rands world and an equitable reality.
As far as some “dubious set of rights” is concerned, I think that the right to fair and equitable treatment as an employee is not a dubious right at all, in fact HP’s published Corporate Values imply that very right. I’m just suggesting that the current HP executive under Mark Hurd are not living up to those values.
Everyone owns the worlds very finite resources – our economic say is our consumer dollar, I’m suggesting that the dollar is spent with companies who have a better track record of treating people fairly, otherwise the consumption of those finite resources is of no socioeconomic benefit to the world as a whole.
I think the issue is a ‘right to respect’. When you devote yourself to a company, and the company is VERY profitable, the company owes you respect, they owe it to you to live up to promised salaries, they owe it to you to live up to a promised retirement. Now if a company is going down then some rules get thrown out, BUT a company doesn’t have a right to award a ceo $40M in bonus while cutting employees salaries and cutting employees levels down to a number where it will be difficult for the company to develop new products for the future – all while making an excellent profit. They also don’t have the right to tell a group of employees they are cutting their salaries an additional 10% for a month so that they can reach double digits profit levels!
Thats why unions are needed, so workers can demand their ‘right to respect’, and if that includes a ‘right to a job’ so be it.
I think Damian is helping bring out many incoherences that are inherent in the present system.
For example, off-shoring hp’s US jobs is a good thing as it increases shareholder value by reducing the overall wage bill…but at the same time, the news yesterday was full of the bad news that the US employment figures are worse than expected. Pushing the “logic” to its extreme, hp could off-shore all US and european jobs, and leave just a handful of people in an office in Delaware. This would massively increase shareholder value by slashing operational costs… but it would have an impact on many communities in the US, particularly due to the knock-on effect on indirect employment, and at the same time remove many potential customers from the market. The US car makers could probably turn themselves round and become very profitable by off-shoring all production activities – but at the same time the US wants to protect employment and buy products manufactured in the US.
Many sites – Boise, Corvallis, Fort Collins etc – were originally manufacturing sites employing many tens of thousands of people. These sites are currently virtually empty and the manufacturing happens off-shore. This has certainly helped profitability, but at the same time has had negative impact on the cities concerned, especially as the knock-on effect can add several non-hp jobs to every hp job lost.
As another example, hp in the US, France, Germany and the UK have been very heavily hit by job cuts – but these are the countries that generate the greatest number of patents worldwide. How does this tie in with the companies stated aims of producing innovative products?
I think it comes down to a debate around the role of a company in society. On the one extreme there’s the US model that says that shareholder value is the only raison d’etre of a company, on the other extreme there’s the communist model where the state owns and controls everything. For me, the ideal model lies somewhere in between.
The idea that shareholder value is the sole driving force for a company comes from a time when the world was very different – the infamous Dodge vs Ford case, which is often quoted, took place in 1919. Is the conclusion – that a business corporation is organized primarily for the profit of the shareholders, as opposed to the community or its employees – still valid 90 years later? Personally I don’t think it’s valid in the current global economy.
ok, well thats a simple statement that doesn’t really have any substance, you saying we don’t have a right to a job. Basically you are correct a person does not have a right to a job. But the reality is, since medieval times in Britain, people have worked for other people, been paid for this and that it how farming, industry, engineering, finance, IT and retail have evolved over 1000 years. Without people having jobs and working for others, this doesn’t happen!, economies don’t work as we understand them to do today.
Now the people employing you need ‘you’ or at least ‘someone’ and you need them!. When the boundaries are moved (and at this time they have Globally) and the employer looks for more and more cheaper ways of getting work done, then workers over time have tried to stand up to this action aswell as for human rights, a fair days pay, health and safety, good working conditions etc, all things that have made for a better quality of life.
Now we either all work for ourselves or we work for companies. The companies have to look after their workers this is the right thing to do, it is the right way for the democratic society we live in.
Going off track, but lets take this a bit further, did the young lad that died the other day in Afghanistan in the war have a right to a job? Does the Nurse and Doctor that might keep you alive one day, have a right to a job? Do they have a right to work in modern hospitals paid for by other hard working peoples taxes, i.e people that work for other people. Did the millions that died in WW2 have a right to be paid for what they were doing so that evil was defeated and you are here today to breath the free air that they gave you with their lives. Would the shareholders and the execs be here and be very rich today, if the young soldiers hadn’t had a right to a job, be paid and give their lives for you. No they wouldn’t.
I’m trying to put this into perspective here, people are losing sight of where we have come from and how we got here, that probably doesn’t matter to you, as you obviously think we don’t have rights. You probably think interventionism is bad, well if a lack of interventionism is how we are here, in the economic state we are in today, then perhaps we need more.
It’s a very simple statement that you made, and as I say, doesn’t really mean anything, but what we do need is for companies who are registered and based in the UK, to have an obligation to look after their workers through good times and bad if possible. BT is a prime example, they once made billions, now they are losing billions but looking for ways of retaining staff through the recession. They are offering to some 25% salary for a year off, short time and other methods of keeping staff and cutting costs.
There are couple of old sayings you might of heard – ‘you look after your own first, then look after others’ and ‘don’t cut off the hand that feeds you’.
Right now, with our countries deeply in debt, caused by the whole premise of shareholder primacy, facing the prospect that we, our children, and their children will be paying that debt for generations to come, from tax revenue generated from jobs in our own countries. I believe we have the right to demand jobs from companies like HP, if we don’t then I would argue that HP doesn’t have the right to consume the earth’s resource’s, or market it’s products in our countries.
OK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Taggart_%28Atlas_Shrugged%29#James_Taggart
I like your reference to Atlas Shrugged but what’s your point in relation to the quote?
My position is that the quote itself is pretty out there, but it’s certainly a catalyst for debate.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) — U.S. securities regulators proposed requiring companies to tell shareholders more about pay policies and board members’ qualifications amid public anger that lax corporate oversight allowed top executives to take excessive risks.
The Securities and Exchange Commission voted on Wednesday to require companies to disclose more information about directors along with more details on how compensation policies can create incentives to take unwarranted risk.
READ FULL ARTICLE:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/01/news/economy/TARP_SEC_wants_pay_input.reut/index.htm?
Right now, with our countries deeply in debt, caused by the whole premise of shareholder primacy, facing the prospect that we, our children, and their children will be paying that debt for generations to come, from tax revenue generated from jobs in our own countries. I believe we have the right to demand jobs from companies like HP, if we don’t then I would argue that HP doesn’t have the right to consume the earth’s resource’s, or market it’s products in our countries.
OK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Taggart_%28Atlas_Shrugged%29#James_Taggart
I like your reference to Atlas Shrugged but what’s your point in relation to the quote?
My position is that the quote itself is pretty out there, but it’s certainly a catalyst for debate.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) — U.S. securities regulators proposed requiring companies to tell shareholders more about pay policies and board members’ qualifications amid public anger that lax corporate oversight allowed top executives to take excessive risks.
The Securities and Exchange Commission voted on Wednesday to require companies to disclose more information about directors along with more details on how compensation policies can create incentives to take unwarranted risk.
READ FULL ARTICLE:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/01/news/economy/TARP_SEC_wants_pay_input.reut/index.htm?
We in UK have been told that they are cutting us down to 3 from 4 (after reducing us from 9). Has anyone details on the selection criteria being used for Compulsory Redundancy ?
We in UK have been told that they are cutting us down to 3 from 4 (after reducing us from 9). Has anyone details on the selection criteria being used for Compulsory Redundancy ?
All these layoffs are really showing up in the quality of HP products!!! I was told all the EDS employess got an email telling them to back up to make they back up their HP (specifically) laptops often as there has been a lot of failures lately. The EDS people who are used to using Dell laptops haven’t had to worry about this before (not to say it wasn’t a good idea to though).
As a long time HP’er I guess I’m used to it now…
All these layoffs are really showing up in the quality of HP products!!! I was told all the EDS employess got an email telling them to back up to make they back up their HP (specifically) laptops often as there has been a lot of failures lately. The EDS people who are used to using Dell laptops haven’t had to worry about this before (not to say it wasn’t a good idea to though).
As a long time HP’er I guess I’m used to it now…
I do not beleve Omega is broken I beleve Omega is working exactly the way the HP Executives want it work .
They are saving Millions in not paying out commission $$$$ to the sales force
I do not beleve Omega is broken I beleve Omega is working exactly the way the HP Executives want it work .
They are saving Millions in not paying out commission $$$$ to the sales force
Heres ethics reform the HP way :
[comment has been edited because it contained the original HP confidential email in it's entirety. In the email Randall C. Runk Senior Vice President- US Sales was quoted as saying...]
Rest assured that in my quarterly analysis of Mark Hurd’s HP, due soon, we will be putting HP’s so called ‘ethics’ under the spotlight.
HP’s is one of the most Un-ethical companys I’ve ever been associated with the Greed and contempt of the executives for the workers is unfathomable It would be good to see the light shine on the Executive miss-conduct and unchecked greed I only wish the govenrment could do something
Heres ethics reform the HP way :
[comment has been edited because it contained the original HP confidential email in it's entirety. In the email Randall C. Runk Senior Vice President- US Sales was quoted as saying...]
Rest assured that in my quarterly analysis of Mark Hurd’s HP, due soon, we will be putting HP’s so called ‘ethics’ under the spotlight.
HP’s is one of the most Un-ethical companys I’ve ever been associated with the Greed and contempt of the executives for the workers is unfathomable It would be good to see the light shine on the Executive miss-conduct and unchecked greed I only wish the govenrment could do something
I’ve been thinking about the new business model that’s emerging:
- the company doesn’t provide premises for all employees, so the employee works at home and, depending on the country, may not be compensated for using their own equipment and space
- the salary model includes a variable part that is often outside the control of the individual and is determined by an opaque forumla that only the company knows.
This is getting back to the outworking model of the 18th and 19th centuries, where individuals used their own premises to make items for a middle man or business, and where they had no control over the price they received. As on-site networking breaks down, the individual becomes increasinlgy isolated and vulnerable. These are some of the factors that led to the creation of trades unions. Countries that have strong unions are far better armed against this new business model: those, such as the US, where unions are extremely weak are prime candidates for a resurgence of trades unionism.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if the extreme version of capitalism that Hurd and others practice led to the resurgence of a highly-unionised workforce…
This is the crime that is being perpetrated on a so-called democratic society.
Yes, but how do we, the majority, react to the abhorrence?
We continue to vote for right-wing parties due to fear of the what the left will do to undermine our market economy.
We believe the propaganda about competitiveness and the need for tax breaks and incentives for those rich beyond meaning.
We hate, but support unconditionally, pampered pigs like Mark Hurd.
My friends, only through voting for change, with the courage of our convictions, will we break the spell of avarice.
Vote for change whatever your country or culture.
Vote for those who will go back to post-war prosperity and reasonable equity for all.
Vot for your children’s future, slightly more free from the hateful gluttons personified by that pig-dog Mark Hurd. Remember – he exists because the majority voted badly and supported puppet governments amenable to his cause.
Wake up, bitches.
Roosevelt.
It’s ironic really isn’t it? Your so called Market Economy nearly brought the western world to it’s knees.
I’ve been thinking about the new business model that’s emerging:
- the company doesn’t provide premises for all employees, so the employee works at home and, depending on the country, may not be compensated for using their own equipment and space
- the salary model includes a variable part that is often outside the control of the individual and is determined by an opaque forumla that only the company knows.
This is getting back to the outworking model of the 18th and 19th centuries, where individuals used their own premises to make items for a middle man or business, and where they had no control over the price they received. As on-site networking breaks down, the individual becomes increasinlgy isolated and vulnerable. These are some of the factors that led to the creation of trades unions. Countries that have strong unions are far better armed against this new business model: those, such as the US, where unions are extremely weak are prime candidates for a resurgence of trades unionism.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if the extreme version of capitalism that Hurd and others practice led to the resurgence of a highly-unionised workforce…
This is the crime that is being perpetrated on a so-called democratic society.
Yes, but how do we, the majority, react to the abhorrence?
We continue to vote for right-wing parties due to fear of the what the left will do to undermine our market economy.
We believe the propaganda about competitiveness and the need for tax breaks and incentives for those rich beyond meaning.
We hate, but support unconditionally, pampered pigs like Mark Hurd.
My friends, only through voting for change, with the courage of our convictions, will we break the spell of avarice.
Vote for change whatever your country or culture.
Vote for those who will go back to post-war prosperity and reasonable equity for all.
Vot for your children’s future, slightly more free from the hateful gluttons personified by that pig-dog Mark Hurd. Remember – he exists because the majority voted badly and supported puppet governments amenable to his cause.
Wake up, bitches.
Roosevelt.
It’s ironic really isn’t it? Your so called Market Economy nearly brought the western world to it’s knees.
The strike site is for EDS OS in Germany…
http://www.edsser.de/index.html
As Italy had a strike earlier this week, I hope that they’ll keep us informed so we can include this here as well. For colleagues and former colleagues we could use your help in our fight.
Feel free to join the our Facebook group “EDS Employees Say Yes To HP, But For Us All”…
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=91466762718&ref=mf
You can also look for John Q Worker at the various social network sites. Let’s all stop this insanity
United States Sales Force has NOT BEEN PAID CORRECTLY IN THE ENTIRE FY09!!!!!!!! OMEGA IS BROKEN. LAWS ARE BEING BROKEN!!!
OK.. is there enough strife from the US workers who are part of the sales force who haven’t gotten paid correct commission in 8 months to do something in a unified way!? How much longer do we try to decifer and BELIEVE Omega’s inaccurate bastardized data and hope for the best??? I love to see the actions in EMEA going on. Can anyone point me to a US website/group contact information- that is attempting to gain a unified voice against the Omega issues and non payment? Please, post it here if there is such a site, or contact info.
Thanks.
I think its is up to us to start something.. I havent found any organized effort. The only thing that will work is to go the lawsuit route I think
Check out the Wall Street Journal article
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124943800675006679.html
Pity we can’t see the whole article without subscribing, but the 1st paragraphs say it all. I get the sense that the world will wake up to what Mark Hurds so called “ethics” really mean and it will come back to bite him on the arse as he goes down with the sinking ship he created.
The strike site is for EDS OS in Germany…
http://www.edsser.de/index.html
As Italy had a strike earlier this week, I hope that they’ll keep us informed so we can include this here as well. For colleagues and former colleagues we could use your help in our fight.
Feel free to join the our Facebook group “EDS Employees Say Yes To HP, But For Us All”…
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=91466762718&ref=mf
You can also look for John Q Worker at the various social network sites. Let’s all stop this insanity
United States Sales Force has NOT BEEN PAID CORRECTLY IN THE ENTIRE FY09!!!!!!!! OMEGA IS BROKEN. LAWS ARE BEING BROKEN!!!
OK.. is there enough strife from the US workers who are part of the sales force who haven’t gotten paid correct commission in 8 months to do something in a unified way!? How much longer do we try to decifer and BELIEVE Omega’s inaccurate bastardized data and hope for the best??? I love to see the actions in EMEA going on. Can anyone point me to a US website/group contact information- that is attempting to gain a unified voice against the Omega issues and non payment? Please, post it here if there is such a site, or contact info.
Thanks.
I think its is up to us to start something.. I havent found any organized effort. The only thing that will work is to go the lawsuit route I think
Check out the Wall Street Journal article
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124943800675006679.html
Pity we can’t see the whole article without subscribing, but the 1st paragraphs say it all. I get the sense that the world will wake up to what Mark Hurds so called “ethics” really mean and it will come back to bite him on the arse as he goes down with the sinking ship he created.
Striking EDS OS employees in Germany asked President Obama for his help with HP in a petition that was delivered in front of the national German press at the American Consulate in Frankfurt.
The video is here…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY91ayixvoI
Be sure to have a look at our Facebook group…
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=91466762718&ref=mf
Look for me at the various social media sites. Let your government know that we won’t take this crap any longer!
Striking EDS OS employees in Germany asked President Obama for his help with HP in a petition that was delivered in front of the national German press at the American Consulate in Frankfurt.
The video is here…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY91ayixvoI
Be sure to have a look at our Facebook group…
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=91466762718&ref=mf
Look for me at the various social media sites. Let your government know that we won’t take this crap any longer!
Apparently we in the UK are about to be sent the Wage Cut email soon and HP are going to reinforce their argument by saying that the reason for it is the downturn in the Global IT market and general global economic situation. IGNORING the fact that they making massive profits and have so many billions cash in the bank that they don’t know what to do with it.
If it’s taken you 5 years to make the 5% they want to take off you now and then it will take you another 5 years to get it back again from now, if your still in work and if your lucky!. Sounds ridiculous, but thats 10 years to gain 5% income overall. Think about it how many pay rises have you had in the last 5 years?
I don’t know about changing the Global Finance system , they (Gov) should also be looking at corporate law with a Global emphasis.
Completely agree – if the company was LOSING a couple of billion a quarter instead of making a couple of billion the pay cut would be a bit more understandable.
Also, don’t count on getting that 5% back anytime soon. Many people in HP haven’t had a pay rise in years and HP has said that it’s moving away from base pay rises towards a variable bonus culture…
Apparently we in the UK are about to be sent the Wage Cut email soon and HP are going to reinforce their argument by saying that the reason for it is the downturn in the Global IT market and general global economic situation. IGNORING the fact that they making massive profits and have so many billions cash in the bank that they don’t know what to do with it.
If it’s taken you 5 years to make the 5% they want to take off you now and then it will take you another 5 years to get it back again from now, if your still in work and if your lucky!. Sounds ridiculous, but thats 10 years to gain 5% income overall. Think about it how many pay rises have you had in the last 5 years?
I don’t know about changing the Global Finance system , they (Gov) should also be looking at corporate law with a Global emphasis.
Completely agree – if the company was LOSING a couple of billion a quarter instead of making a couple of billion the pay cut would be a bit more understandable.
Also, don’t count on getting that 5% back anytime soon. Many people in HP haven’t had a pay rise in years and HP has said that it’s moving away from base pay rises towards a variable bonus culture…
EDS OS employees voted to strike and we’re now in our 4th week. Last week we “fired” management for a variety of reasons including their inability to negotiate with the works council, which ultimately led to our brining in two labor unions. I was told by an HP person that they never had anyone strike before, not that he thought it would make a difference. Here are two videos from last week where colleagues from throughout Germany came to Ruesselsheim and 1000+ employees marched to a nearby hotel where management was holding high-level meetings and we “fired” them.
Look at all the people marching in this video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYJ__KqdpX8
This one is a highlight of that day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-eRlZezEI4
Come join our social media campaign. We’ve created a group at Facebook called “EDS Employees Say Yes To HP, But For Us All”
@ http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=91466762718&ref=mf
By the way you’re welcome to join us anonomously. We need your support.
Hurd was noticably absent at the HP Tech Forum last week (he’s been to every other one.) I had a chance to talk to a lot of other fellow HP employees. I’ve never seen a company with so many disgruntled employees. The reduction in employee pay and benefits when the company has been making money has taken its toll. Great leadership…
No mention of if/where HP Tech Forum will be next year. Probably cut like everything else…
The part that makes me chuckle(and burn with a seething hatred), is that these CEOs expect us to believe that the solution to these “problems” is to offshore more staff and cut more American jobs? Huh? Did none of them take economics(or, for that matter, business ethics)? Did they ever play “Monopoly”? Hell, what about “Hi Ho! Cherry-O”?
Less is not more. 10 cherries is not greater than 100!
The solution to creating more jobs and introducing a positive cash flow into the American economy is NOT to push more jobs and more cash out of the economy! Sure, you might have a short term gain, but the long term loss is staggering!
The solution:
Greedy corporate CEOs/Managers need to stop taking more than their fair share of the company money pie.
America needs to PRODUCE something, and without 50 million dollar salaries, companies could afford to buy American products.
Companies need to stop scamming the government out of tax dollars. Likewise, when they get caught, stop taking it out on American workers. We are tired of paying for your greed.
Decrease the number of offshore jobs. Cheaper is not the same as better. Stop sacrificing quality for quantity. American consumers are tired of it, and so are American workers.
The problem with all these solutions is that it’s not a “quick fix”, and things might get worse before they get better. The biggest hurdle however, is it hurts CEO’s wallets. And as long as greed is the driving force for these people, American will degenerate into a two class system: The unbelievably wealthy, and the undeniably poor.
EDS OS employees voted to strike and we’re now in our 4th week. Last week we “fired” management for a variety of reasons including their inability to negotiate with the works council, which ultimately led to our brining in two labor unions. I was told by an HP person that they never had anyone strike before, not that he thought it would make a difference. Here are two videos from last week where colleagues from throughout Germany came to Ruesselsheim and 1000+ employees marched to a nearby hotel where management was holding high-level meetings and we “fired” them.
Look at all the people marching in this video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYJ__KqdpX8
This one is a highlight of that day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-eRlZezEI4
Come join our social media campaign. We’ve created a group at Facebook called “EDS Employees Say Yes To HP, But For Us All”
@ http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=91466762718&ref=mf
By the way you’re welcome to join us anonomously. We need your support.
Hurd was noticably absent at the HP Tech Forum last week (he’s been to every other one.) I had a chance to talk to a lot of other fellow HP employees. I’ve never seen a company with so many disgruntled employees. The reduction in employee pay and benefits when the company has been making money has taken its toll. Great leadership…
No mention of if/where HP Tech Forum will be next year. Probably cut like everything else…
The part that makes me chuckle(and burn with a seething hatred), is that these CEOs expect us to believe that the solution to these “problems” is to offshore more staff and cut more American jobs? Huh? Did none of them take economics(or, for that matter, business ethics)? Did they ever play “Monopoly”? Hell, what about “Hi Ho! Cherry-O”?
Less is not more. 10 cherries is not greater than 100!
The solution to creating more jobs and introducing a positive cash flow into the American economy is NOT to push more jobs and more cash out of the economy! Sure, you might have a short term gain, but the long term loss is staggering!
The solution:
Greedy corporate CEOs/Managers need to stop taking more than their fair share of the company money pie.
America needs to PRODUCE something, and without 50 million dollar salaries, companies could afford to buy American products.
Companies need to stop scamming the government out of tax dollars. Likewise, when they get caught, stop taking it out on American workers. We are tired of paying for your greed.
Decrease the number of offshore jobs. Cheaper is not the same as better. Stop sacrificing quality for quantity. American consumers are tired of it, and so are American workers.
The problem with all these solutions is that it’s not a “quick fix”, and things might get worse before they get better. The biggest hurdle however, is it hurts CEO’s wallets. And as long as greed is the driving force for these people, American will degenerate into a two class system: The unbelievably wealthy, and the undeniably poor.
I’ve not heard of another Corporation that is slashing jobs and wages while doing so well, financially, and that in a recession.
As a UK worker who I think will see CR taking place very soon in UK offices i’m appalled that our Government who outsourced their IT systems 11 years ago is sitting back and letting this take place. Our UK office is now 40 – 50 % offshore workers brought on-shore and this % is increasing, yet very soon CR is going to happen. There was an agreement that EDS would keep a local office here and persist in employing local people. Thats obviously gone.
We the UK are going the same as the States, we have millions upon millions reliant on benefits, millions of migrant workers from other countries being paid low wages and driving down wages of UK citizens. I have no problem with a sensible controlled immigration policy, but we ain’t got one, period. Whats good about having 1 million UK 18 – 25 year olds without a proper job and then letting workers in from off-shore countries.
HP \ EDS has NO proper training policy there are NO 18 – 25 yrs old people learning IT in our Office.
Most multi national companies have become strong in the West over the last 50 years built by our fathers\mothers over the decades. Now they are selling us out and using cheap labour from other countries to make their billions. This can’t carry on, it isn’t a plan, its selfish and greed at its worst.
While our MP’s fight for their political lives and trying to excuse their own greed, 10,000′s people in the UK are losing there jobs and livelihoods every week.
We need to cut out the bullshit and the dumbing down, my god where do we start?
Thanks Labour Government, oh and Ken Clarke Conservative supremo stated 1 thing they would change if they got in power next time, they would change Employment Laws – what for our benefit or more like the States!
Right excuse me, im off to do my HP Ethics mandatory course, the only training they think is important, irony at its best!!
I’ve not heard of another Corporation that is slashing jobs and wages while doing so well, financially, and that in a recession.
As a UK worker who I think will see CR taking place very soon in UK offices i’m appalled that our Government who outsourced their IT systems 11 years ago is sitting back and letting this take place. Our UK office is now 40 – 50 % offshore workers brought on-shore and this % is increasing, yet very soon CR is going to happen. There was an agreement that EDS would keep a local office here and persist in employing local people. Thats obviously gone.
We the UK are going the same as the States, we have millions upon millions reliant on benefits, millions of migrant workers from other countries being paid low wages and driving down wages of UK citizens. I have no problem with a sensible controlled immigration policy, but we ain’t got one, period. Whats good about having 1 million UK 18 – 25 year olds without a proper job and then letting workers in from off-shore countries.
HP EDS has NO proper training policy there are NO 18 – 25 yrs old people learning IT in our Office.
Most multi national companies have become strong in the West over the last 50 years built by our fathersmothers over the decades. Now they are selling us out and using cheap labour from other countries to make their billions. This can’t carry on, it isn’t a plan, its selfish and greed at its worst.
While our MP’s fight for their political lives and trying to excuse their own greed, 10,000′s people in the UK are losing there jobs and livelihoods every week.
We need to cut out the bullshit and the dumbing down, my god where do we start?
Thanks Labour Government, oh and Ken Clarke Conservative supremo stated 1 thing they would change if they got in power next time, they would change Employment Laws – what for our benefit or more like the States!
Right excuse me, im off to do my HP Ethics mandatory course, the only training they think is important, irony at its best!!
I truly understand that in these economic times that companies must make that painful decision to let people go. Thus, I do support Hurd’s decisions to make significant reductions in staffing levels.
But what I don’t understand, is how Hurd and the executives can receive such sizeable salaries & bonuses, when stockholders get minimal dividends (and staff level gets paycuts). It would seem to me that Executive/CEOs shouldn’t get bonuses when companies are not doing well….and doing well isn’t a matter of increasing profits by laying off, it should also be tied to market share, customer satisfaction, product inovation, and general business health.
I think that you overlook the point that Mark Hurd is, and has been, letting people go regardless of whether the times are good or bad. He never expresses any concern whatsoever for the people affected. It’s just business as usual for him.
The question is what kind of society have we become when we blithely accept that, when our whole economy, the fabric or our entire society, revolves around jobs, that people like Mark Hurd, in charge of a company that is far from being in trouble, and has the cash reserves to alleviate the problem of unemployment rather then exacerbating it, should it choose to, can get away with putting people off with impunity?
I truly understand that in these economic times that companies must make that painful decision to let people go. Thus, I do support Hurd’s decisions to make significant reductions in staffing levels.
But what I don’t understand, is how Hurd and the executives can receive such sizeable salaries & bonuses, when stockholders get minimal dividends (and staff level gets paycuts). It would seem to me that Executive/CEOs shouldn’t get bonuses when companies are not doing well….and doing well isn’t a matter of increasing profits by laying off, it should also be tied to market share, customer satisfaction, product inovation, and general business health.
I think that you overlook the point that Mark Hurd is, and has been, letting people go regardless of whether the times are good or bad. He never expresses any concern whatsoever for the people affected. It’s just business as usual for him.
The question is what kind of society have we become when we blithely accept that, when our whole economy, the fabric or our entire society, revolves around jobs, that people like Mark Hurd, in charge of a company that is far from being in trouble, and has the cash reserves to alleviate the problem of unemployment rather then exacerbating it, should it choose to, can get away with putting people off with impunity?
HPNews is following my twitter profile!
I noticed the other day that HPNews was following my tweets. They do apparently have someone that keeps track of “tweets” mentioning HP in the twitterverse.
John
We’ll be sure to tweet them something ‘nice’ then.
HPNews is following my twitter profile!
I noticed the other day that HPNews was following my tweets. They do apparently have someone that keeps track of “tweets” mentioning HP in the twitterverse.
John
We’ll be sure to tweet them something ‘nice’ then.
Join The Social Media Campaign!!
I’m working at EDS Operations Solutions in Germany. Due to the planned massive job cuts (our reward for being bought by HP!)and managements’ refusal to constructively talk with the Works Council, EDSers have joined the IGM and Ver.di unions in droves and we voted almost 92% in a strike vote. We’ve had several “warning” strikes are are striking today (our 3rd strike day this week).
As part of our strike efforts, I’ve started a social media campaign, spreading the word throughout cyberspace. I’ve created a group at Facebook called “EDS Employees Say Yes To HP, But For Us All” at
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=91466762718&ref=mf
This is the central point where non-strike sensitive information will be posted.
I’ve created profiles on some profiles on various social media sites and they usually have a user name similar to “John Q Worker”
Facebook profile:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1789816105
Twitter profile:
http://twitter.com/JohnQWorker
Stumbleupon:
http://johnqworker.stumbleupon.com/
Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnqworker/
Feel free to friend/follow me at any of these site. Help us get the word about HP’s current tactics and join us in the social media campaign. Post things about HP on profiles, forums, and locations that get a lot of traffic. In Facebook sometime by becoming a “fan” of something or joining a group you then post things in an area where people can see it.
Join The Social Media Campaign!!
I’m working at EDS Operations Solutions in Germany. Due to the planned massive job cuts (our reward for being bought by HP!)and managements’ refusal to constructively talk with the Works Council, EDSers have joined the IGM and Ver.di unions in droves and we voted almost 92% in a strike vote. We’ve had several “warning” strikes are are striking today (our 3rd strike day this week).
As part of our strike efforts, I’ve started a social media campaign, spreading the word throughout cyberspace. I’ve created a group at Facebook called “EDS Employees Say Yes To HP, But For Us All” at
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=91466762718&ref=mf
This is the central point where non-strike sensitive information will be posted.
I’ve created profiles on some profiles on various social media sites and they usually have a user name similar to “John Q Worker”
Facebook profile:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1789816105
Twitter profile:
http://twitter.com/JohnQWorker
Stumbleupon:
http://johnqworker.stumbleupon.com/
Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnqworker/
Feel free to friend/follow me at any of these site. Help us get the word about HP’s current tactics and join us in the social media campaign. Post things about HP on profiles, forums, and locations that get a lot of traffic. In Facebook sometime by becoming a “fan” of something or joining a group you then post things in an area where people can see it.
Damian,
Revenge is right. I work for HP in Italy and the morale is rock bottom. The biggest problem now is that the economy is quite bad here and it’s hard to find something else but all people I work with seem to be busy not focusing on the job or the customers but rather focusing on preparing a safety net around them or an exit strategy. So most people are doing the bare minimum for HP and work on a plan B. The main thought on people’s mind at the moment is this
“what will I do in the likely event that I will be laid off ?”
I know people who used to work very hard in the past , now the do the very bare minimum and think
“Why should I work so hard, when I run the risk to be laid of anytime anyway when a cheap unskilled replacement is found in a cheap location ?”
People are working to be in a “safe” position if this happens, so automatically HP customers are not the employees main priority and the pride to work for HP that we had in the past has long gone, thanks to the hostile environment created by the top management team. Anyway the greedy and social unresponsible management team cannot care less about HP its employees and customers. As soon as the cow is milked and the ship starts sinking they will move to another badge and harvest another company in the same way that they did for HP
Giulio Cesare
Damian,
Revenge is right. I work for HP in Italy and the morale is rock bottom. The biggest problem now is that the economy is quite bad here and it’s hard to find something else but all people I work with seem to be busy not focusing on the job or the customers but rather focusing on preparing a safety net around them or an exit strategy. So most people are doing the bare minimum for HP and work on a plan B. The main thought on people’s mind at the moment is this
“what will I do in the likely event that I will be laid off ?”
I know people who used to work very hard in the past , now the do the very bare minimum and think
“Why should I work so hard, when I run the risk to be laid of anytime anyway when a cheap unskilled replacement is found in a cheap location ?”
People are working to be in a “safe” position if this happens, so automatically HP customers are not the employees main priority and the pride to work for HP that we had in the past has long gone, thanks to the hostile environment created by the top management team. Anyway the greedy and social unresponsible management team cannot care less about HP its employees and customers. As soon as the cow is milked and the ship starts sinking they will move to another badge and harvest another company in the same way that they did for HP
Giulio Cesare
Yes, it’s appalling really isn’t it. But there is a groundswell of opinion growing against the likes of Mark Hurd and the time will come when he finds out that his actions are socially and economically wrong in many ways. If you ask me the number of people who wield any real influence in HP in terms of supporting Mark Hurd would be about 10, the other 299, 990 (rapidly diminishing) would be a force to be reckoned with if they decided to speak up for change.
I hope you are right Damian.
At the webcast last month of an all employee meeting, Hurd said that Corporate America is under fire or something to that effect. This was in response to some asking if Obama’s proposal to modify the law that allows companies to not be taxed on profits made overseas.
He feels he is bigger than the law. And he probably is. Corporations in the US pay lobbyists to secure favorable legislation from politicians. Keep in mind that politicians and this country are cut from the same mold as CEOs.
A friend of mine recently pointed out to me that it used to be that the corporation was all about it’s employees, shareholders and the community.
Now what we see is a corporation is for the executives and the shareholders. The executives being the 10 people that you mention that support Hurd.
I guess that the only solution to that problem then will have to come from boycotting their products. I know we (my business) can do without anything from HP, now and in the future.
Mark Hurd’s action and those of his leadership team are not lost on the workers. The general mood inside is to take what you can get until the escape plan works. While waiting people don’t seem to be going the extra mile. Funny that. Even non exec managers are playing this game. Since the leadership team were not measuring this extra work they have no clue that it slowed down but in time it will drag down the HP name further. The reasons to stay at HP have disappeared and so have the reasons to buy HP.
Corporate rape has occurred for decades and will continue for decades. The difference that the financial crisis brought was an increased awareness. Employee’s no longer trust a word from HP execs. Don’t look for that in VoW because people don’t trust that either. It’s not easy to regain trust and people have long memories. This site will follow Mark Hurd where ever he goes to next.
Exactly. You sold 7.5 hours a day of your time to HP, nothing more, so why give them any thing extra for free, you are only short changing yourself of your life.
The keyword is Mark Hurd – not any of the variations like Mark Turd etc. The objective is to write and publish as much information about his lack of ethics, and the very real human misery he is causing, until we own the 1st 2nd etc. pages of Google searches for Mark Hurd. It will take time as we’re competing with the news media and highly ranked sites, but if it’s achieved it will be a result that will never go away.
I’d suggest we demand he lives up to HP’s published corporate values, or takes them down.
A blog bot… Now there’s an idea. But who would want to do such a thing?
Actually, whilst amusing, a blog bot would undermine the credibility of the action, I had a more manual and educated (in terms of the data presented) action in mind. The search engines index unique content, I would assume a bot would simply spawn duplicate content all over the web and probably be filtered anyway. Real people writing real articles is the key to it.
Yes, it’s appalling really isn’t it. But there is a groundswell of opinion growing against the likes of Mark Hurd and the time will come when he finds out that his actions are socially and economically wrong in many ways. If you ask me the number of people who wield any real influence in HP in terms of supporting Mark Hurd would be about 10, the other 299, 990 (rapidly diminishing) would be a force to be reckoned with if they decided to speak up for change.
I hope you are right Damian.
At the webcast last month of an all employee meeting, Hurd said that Corporate America is under fire or something to that effect. This was in response to some asking if Obama’s proposal to modify the law that allows companies to not be taxed on profits made overseas.
He feels he is bigger than the law. And he probably is. Corporations in the US pay lobbyists to secure favorable legislation from politicians. Keep in mind that politicians and this country are cut from the same mold as CEOs.
A friend of mine recently pointed out to me that it used to be that the corporation was all about it’s employees, shareholders and the community.
Now what we see is a corporation is for the executives and the shareholders. The executives being the 10 people that you mention that support Hurd.
I guess that the only solution to that problem then will have to come from boycotting their products. I know we (my business) can do without anything from HP, now and in the future.
Mark Hurd’s action and those of his leadership team are not lost on the workers. The general mood inside is to take what you can get until the escape plan works. While waiting people don’t seem to be going the extra mile. Funny that. Even non exec managers are playing this game. Since the leadership team were not measuring this extra work they have no clue that it slowed down but in time it will drag down the HP name further. The reasons to stay at HP have disappeared and so have the reasons to buy HP.
Corporate rape has occurred for decades and will continue for decades. The difference that the financial crisis brought was an increased awareness. Employee’s no longer trust a word from HP execs. Don’t look for that in VoW because people don’t trust that either. It’s not easy to regain trust and people have long memories. This site will follow Mark Hurd where ever he goes to next.
Exactly. You sold 7.5 hours a day of your time to HP, nothing more, so why give them any thing extra for free, you are only short changing yourself of your life.
The keyword is Mark Hurd – not any of the variations like Mark Turd etc. The objective is to write and publish as much information about his lack of ethics, and the very real human misery he is causing, until we own the 1st 2nd etc. pages of Google searches for Mark Hurd. It will take time as we’re competing with the news media and highly ranked sites, but if it’s achieved it will be a result that will never go away.
I’d suggest we demand he lives up to HP’s published corporate values, or takes them down.
A blog bot… Now there’s an idea. But who would want to do such a thing?
Actually, whilst amusing, a blog bot would undermine the credibility of the action, I had a more manual and educated (in terms of the data presented) action in mind. The search engines index unique content, I would assume a bot would simply spawn duplicate content all over the web and probably be filtered anyway. Real people writing real articles is the key to it.
I have to laugh. I’ve just seen the latest webcast from Mark Hurd about the Q2 results. Apparently we’ve accrued a bonus. I’d love to know who “We” is…..
Everything points to huge redundancies in Europe (more specifically the UK) in Q3, maybe that’s the bonus he’s talking about ?
Bring it on Mark, bring it on.
Yeah, I’d be laughing too if it wasn’t so wrong. This blog might take a deviation away from putting the boot into Mark Hurd for a while but I’m going to have a field day when they have to publish the senior executives remuneration statistics at the end of the financial year.
Damian,
we in Germany are currently on strike, at least the majority of us. We want to stop these never ending WFR’s, but we need much more publicity. Do you have any idea how it could get more public how we all feel ? The Barrack Obamas and Arnold Schwarzeneggers of the world must know how demoralized and angry we are and how helpless we feel in light of all these inhuman actions. I will attach this German link for you to see some of our activities:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6UDp9C6GBc
and another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XVD4_0gY0w
We already had lots of politicians, they promised to help but we still feel alone with the problem. My impression from the US side is, Mark Hurd is still seen as a hero and not as a merciless job killer without any social responsibility.
We would be happy for any good ideas…..tomorrow we are going on with our strike, all German locations will be involved.
Thanks for your very good comments on the situation and also all the people who have replied.
Honestly, I think the problem is going to take a long time to change, but the global economic crisis has accentuated the need for change and provided a real indicator of what can, and will happen, if there’s none.
Mark Hurd is a product of the problem and only one of many potential targets for criticism, albeit a very highly paid one. The issue is that these guys wield strong influence with politicians and unfortunately our democratic processes are rife with compromise.
Frankly the only thing I know to do is share my opinion…oh, and I vote and I consume IT products and services.
I have to laugh. I’ve just seen the latest webcast from Mark Hurd about the Q2 results. Apparently we’ve accrued a bonus. I’d love to know who “We” is…..
Everything points to huge redundancies in Europe (more specifically the UK) in Q3, maybe that’s the bonus he’s talking about ?
Bring it on Mark, bring it on.
Yeah, I’d be laughing too if it wasn’t so wrong. This blog might take a deviation away from putting the boot into Mark Hurd for a while but I’m going to have a field day when they have to publish the senior executives remuneration statistics at the end of the financial year.
Damian,
we in Germany are currently on strike, at least the majority of us. We want to stop these never ending WFR’s, but we need much more publicity. Do you have any idea how it could get more public how we all feel ? The Barrack Obamas and Arnold Schwarzeneggers of the world must know how demoralized and angry we are and how helpless we feel in light of all these inhuman actions. I will attach this German link for you to see some of our activities:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6UDp9C6GBc
and another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XVD4_0gY0w
We already had lots of politicians, they promised to help but we still feel alone with the problem. My impression from the US side is, Mark Hurd is still seen as a hero and not as a merciless job killer without any social responsibility.
We would be happy for any good ideas…..tomorrow we are going on with our strike, all German locations will be involved.
Thanks for your very good comments on the situation and also all the people who have replied.
Honestly, I think the problem is going to take a long time to change, but the global economic crisis has accentuated the need for change and provided a real indicator of what can, and will happen, if there’s none.
Mark Hurd is a product of the problem and only one of many potential targets for criticism, albeit a very highly paid one. The issue is that these guys wield strong influence with politicians and unfortunately our democratic processes are rife with compromise.
Frankly the only thing I know to do is share my opinion…oh, and I vote and I consume IT products and services.
some of us WFR people might find this useful
http://www.seattlepi.com/business/1310ap_us_unused_vacation_time.html
If you read between the lines it suggests, what I always expected, that companies like HP, and CEO’s like Mark Hurd think they are above the law and more often than not will flaunt it until a judge slaps them back into line.
The Company shutdown over the Christmas period is a classic example. As far as an employee is concerned the accrued annual leave is part of their salary and their right is to take that vacation when it suits them – not the company. Fair enough to say it should be taken in the year that it was earned, or the following at the latest, but dictating the actual days is a breach of basic employee rights.
some of us WFR people might find this useful
http://www.seattlepi.com/business/1310ap_us_unused_vacation_time.html
If you read between the lines it suggests, what I always expected, that companies like HP, and CEO’s like Mark Hurd think they are above the law and more often than not will flaunt it until a judge slaps them back into line.
The Company shutdown over the Christmas period is a classic example. As far as an employee is concerned the accrued annual leave is part of their salary and their right is to take that vacation when it suits them – not the company. Fair enough to say it should be taken in the year that it was earned, or the following at the latest, but dictating the actual days is a breach of basic employee rights.
Damian, yet another really strong article. You are a Force. Btw currently managers in Europe are basically fed unofficially with unofficial stories that refusing the pay cut will have an unofficial(but very real) negative impact on those employees and there will be nothing you can do since that will come from a higher level. Who’s a regular employee to defend against the big corp? Intimidation in it’s worst form-when it comes from withing you.
It is a perversion for countries like Bulgaria for there has not been a single item to drop it’s price, inflation has not slowed it’s pace not even to acknowledge there’s a market liquidity crisis. So how would you feel if your employer asks you to cut off 5% of your salary in an environment of steady inflation?
How would I feel? I’d be pretty pissed, that’s for sure especially when it’s a rort anyway, and if I was asked to vote I’d vote no.
All I can do is write what I think, at best it’s just a slight irritation in Mark Hurd’s agenda to continue the illusion of a profitable company by exploiting you, and by acquiring and devouring more companies.
Should he be stopped? Damn right he should, but more people than me will have to stand up and voice their opinions. The guy, and any other CEO like him, should be completely ostracized and outed for the robber baron he is.
Damian, yet another really strong article. You are a Force. Btw currently managers in Europe are basically fed unofficially with unofficial stories that refusing the pay cut will have an unofficial(but very real) negative impact on those employees and there will be nothing you can do since that will come from a higher level. Who’s a regular employee to defend against the big corp? Intimidation in it’s worst form-when it comes from withing you.
It is a perversion for countries like Bulgaria for there has not been a single item to drop it’s price, inflation has not slowed it’s pace not even to acknowledge there’s a market liquidity crisis. So how would you feel if your employer asks you to cut off 5% of your salary in an environment of steady inflation?
How would I feel? I’d be pretty pissed, that’s for sure especially when it’s a rort anyway, and if I was asked to vote I’d vote no.
All I can do is write what I think, at best it’s just a slight irritation in Mark Hurd’s agenda to continue the illusion of a profitable company by exploiting you, and by acquiring and devouring more companies.
Should he be stopped? Damn right he should, but more people than me will have to stand up and voice their opinions. The guy, and any other CEO like him, should be completely ostracized and outed for the robber baron he is.
yes we can expect couple of acquisition in 3 monhts. HP is having 30 bl cash in hand they will acquire.
Regard’s
lost@hp
When you are in a position where the managers have chosen ‘Who can I do without?’ then your company is in trouble. because you now are reliant on unhappy people.
These are the only people who know your business and are your only method to service your customer.
These people will eventually leave you.
Then how do you cope?
Easy, I think.
If you take a look at this article, and in particular this quote;
Then I would assume there’s another acquisition on it’s way.
When you are in a position where the managers have chosen ‘Who can I do without?’ then your company is in trouble. because you now are reliant on unhappy people.
These are the only people who know your business and are your only method to service your customer.
These people will eventually leave you.
Then how do you cope?
Easy, I think.
If you take a look at this article, and in particular this quote;
Then I would assume there’s another acquisition on it’s way.
I’m concerned that it’s only time before the current WFR packages are slashed back to statuatory minima and, as more staff are cut, HP then evade paying the proper price for this cull.
I’m concerned that it’s only time before the current WFR packages are slashed back to statuatory minima and, as more staff are cut, HP then evade paying the proper price for this cull.
Germany has more worker protections that much of the world so integration of EDS Germany into HP has been complicated. In many of the departments here management plans to get rid of one third of the employees and in some cases entire departments would be best-shored.
I had thought that HP wanted EDS so that they could better compete against IBM in the services area, but why would you want to gut EDS. In the long run the other competitors will get stronger and be able to offer services that HP is not able to deliver.
Last week one of the EDS legal entities in Germany went on strick for a couple of days to try to get a resonable dialogue going with management. It seems likely that there will be further strikes in the near future.
Somebody has to stop the insaity.
I believe the EDS merger is just a strategic part of Mark Hurds profit illusion. The consumption of EDS, and it’s eventual assimilation into HP looks good as far as figures go, and it masks the fact that HP really doesn’t have anything innovative to drive its continuing growth. Nothing that you can’t get from anywhere else that is – and that’s a big problem.
If you merge two historically unprofitable companies you just get a larger unprofitable company. Banking on any upswing as far as attachment rates associated with the broader customer base would be folly in this marketplace.
If you merge two historically mediocre companies you just get a bigger mediocre company. Neither HP or EDS are really stellar services companies.
At least EDS was #2. HP/TSG was a distant 3, or 4. Yes, I too do not understand the gutting of EDS.
Many of our accounts and clients are becoming alarmed that they cannot get resources to help them.
I’m amazed we’re not hearing more from Customers and can only assume it’s because the CIO’s are motivated by shareholder returns too, forgoing quality (and by that I mean resources when you need them) for cost reductions. It’s the end users that feel the pain.
The fact that you are not hearing clients can only mean that either they don’t care or are planning to change.
I have heard that the underlying reason for purchasing EDS was access to EDS customers for the technology sales teams. EDS always was technology agnostic, we provided a standard but could tailor to customer preferences. We would even give them HP technology if they really wanted it!
HP sales can now push HP technology only. Also now they are stripping out the EDS engineering divisions, so there is only one source of answers. No one to tailor to customer needs.
Why are the customers not complaining? Are we sure they are not? Most deals of the size EDS ran take 2-3 years to change suppliers. A year to figure out something is wrong that the interminable US consultants, SIPs and GFG will not fix. Then another year to formulate the new sourcing strategy and a year to go to a new RFT/RFP.
I doubt whether EDS as we knew it even really exists now? But HP has a captive market they previously had little access to.
Oh the paradox of outsourcing. The people making the decisions – the ones Mark Hurd sees as customers – are of the same ilk as him. As long as there is cost reduction there’s no real concern for the quality of the service (although there’s plenty of lip service to the contrary). The people who feel the pain are way down the ladder on both sides and the executives don’t care about that, in addition, there are enough arse kissers in their organizations to ensure they only see a rosy picture anyway.
well PHEW!!! Johnson&Johnson IT were supposed to be Swallowed up with EDS and have now pulled the plug Hooray!!
Johnson&Johnson CREDO was for Customers, Employees, Communities and Shareholder last, The man who wrote it General RW Johnson was away ahead of his time and was castigated as a Coporate Rebel for his views, I just wish the present CEO’s would start to lead with this mans Vision.
Germany has more worker protections that much of the world so integration of EDS Germany into HP has been complicated. In many of the departments here management plans to get rid of one third of the employees and in some cases entire departments would be best-shored.
I had thought that HP wanted EDS so that they could better compete against IBM in the services area, but why would you want to gut EDS. In the long run the other competitors will get stronger and be able to offer services that HP is not able to deliver.
Last week one of the EDS legal entities in Germany went on strick for a couple of days to try to get a resonable dialogue going with management. It seems likely that there will be further strikes in the near future.
Somebody has to stop the insaity.
I believe the EDS merger is just a strategic part of Mark Hurds profit illusion. The consumption of EDS, and it’s eventual assimilation into HP looks good as far as figures go, and it masks the fact that HP really doesn’t have anything innovative to drive its continuing growth. Nothing that you can’t get from anywhere else that is – and that’s a big problem.
If you merge two historically unprofitable companies you just get a larger unprofitable company. Banking on any upswing as far as attachment rates associated with the broader customer base would be folly in this marketplace.
If you merge two historically mediocre companies you just get a bigger mediocre company. Neither HP or EDS are really stellar services companies.
At least EDS was #2. HP/TSG was a distant 3, or 4. Yes, I too do not understand the gutting of EDS.
Many of our accounts and clients are becoming alarmed that they cannot get resources to help them.
I’m amazed we’re not hearing more from Customers and can only assume it’s because the CIO’s are motivated by shareholder returns too, forgoing quality (and by that I mean resources when you need them) for cost reductions. It’s the end users that feel the pain.
The fact that you are not hearing clients can only mean that either they don’t care or are planning to change.
I have heard that the underlying reason for purchasing EDS was access to EDS customers for the technology sales teams. EDS always was technology agnostic, we provided a standard but could tailor to customer preferences. We would even give them HP technology if they really wanted it!
HP sales can now push HP technology only. Also now they are stripping out the EDS engineering divisions, so there is only one source of answers. No one to tailor to customer needs.
Why are the customers not complaining? Are we sure they are not? Most deals of the size EDS ran take 2-3 years to change suppliers. A year to figure out something is wrong that the interminable US consultants, SIPs and GFG will not fix. Then another year to formulate the new sourcing strategy and a year to go to a new RFT/RFP.
I doubt whether EDS as we knew it even really exists now? But HP has a captive market they previously had little access to.
Oh the paradox of outsourcing. The people making the decisions – the ones Mark Hurd sees as customers – are of the same ilk as him. As long as there is cost reduction there’s no real concern for the quality of the service (although there’s plenty of lip service to the contrary). The people who feel the pain are way down the ladder on both sides and the executives don’t care about that, in addition, there are enough arse kissers in their organizations to ensure they only see a rosy picture anyway.
well PHEW!!! Johnson&Johnson IT were supposed to be Swallowed up with EDS and have now pulled the plug Hooray!!
Johnson&Johnson CREDO was for Customers, Employees, Communities and Shareholder last, The man who wrote it General RW Johnson was away ahead of his time and was castigated as a Coporate Rebel for his views, I just wish the present CEO’s would start to lead with this mans Vision.
I would love to leave, but it seems more prudent to wait for a wfr and get the severance pay. In the mean time, I do think everybody realizes how productivity has suffered during these attacks on the rank and file.
I do disagree with some of the posters though. It sounds good, but I’ll bet you when things turn around HP will give people token raises and most people will just accept them and stay vs. starting all over at a new company with new seniority and little vacation. It will be like the BS never happened. I definitely am not saying this will be the right thing to do, but I think it will happen and management knows it.
I understand where you are coming from and, yes, holding out for a WFR makes sense if you think it’s imminent. I did and then invested the money in my new business. You don’t often get lump sums in your life and that changed mine.
It’s easy for me to stand on the sideline and comment on Mark Hurd’s unscrupulous behavior, but I think that executive management of big corporations like HP take advantage of the typical tendency of human beings to behave like sheep and succumb to fear of loosing their security. That’s why they get away with such outrageous exploitation.
Your comment regarding “when things turn around” forgets that this type of thing has occurred right from the get go of Mark Hurd’s reign, when HP’s performance was seen as stellar, and well before the economic crisis. There is no basis to suggest that things will turn around for the HP employee.
Monday I recieved a jabber from my manager telling me he needed to talk to me and could he call me. I took the call and it started off with “The current economic developments….” I stopped him there and thanked him for the opportunity to do something differnt wtih my life. I have until July 20th then I am officially out. My question to anyone reading is: can they do this legally when they know I am having surgery tomorrow?? I accept the WFR, have even fantasized about it, but the way it was done seemed wrong in every way. I was first WFR’d in 2006 and it was done by a local manager with my remote manager on the phone. At that time I was told it was company policy for it to be done face to face. This was done with 3 managers (1 in CO, 1 in NM, 1 who knows where and myself in IN) and myself all on differt lines. Any insite to the guidelines would be appreciated.
I’m not sure how serious your surgery is but two things – one you should check if they can dump you while on short term disability, and two is you can keep your existing ltd insurance when they dump you by paying for it – keep it in mind if you have serious problems.
I would love to leave, but it seems more prudent to wait for a wfr and get the severance pay. In the mean time, I do think everybody realizes how productivity has suffered during these attacks on the rank and file.
I do disagree with some of the posters though. It sounds good, but I’ll bet you when things turn around HP will give people token raises and most people will just accept them and stay vs. starting all over at a new company with new seniority and little vacation. It will be like the BS never happened. I definitely am not saying this will be the right thing to do, but I think it will happen and management knows it.
I understand where you are coming from and, yes, holding out for a WFR makes sense if you think it’s imminent. I did and then invested the money in my new business. You don’t often get lump sums in your life and that changed mine.
It’s easy for me to stand on the sideline and comment on Mark Hurd’s unscrupulous behavior, but I think that executive management of big corporations like HP take advantage of the typical tendency of human beings to behave like sheep and succumb to fear of loosing their security. That’s why they get away with such outrageous exploitation.
Your comment regarding “when things turn around” forgets that this type of thing has occurred right from the get go of Mark Hurd’s reign, when HP’s performance was seen as stellar, and well before the economic crisis. There is no basis to suggest that things will turn around for the HP employee.
Monday I recieved a jabber from my manager telling me he needed to talk to me and could he call me. I took the call and it started off with “The current economic developments….” I stopped him there and thanked him for the opportunity to do something differnt wtih my life. I have until July 20th then I am officially out. My question to anyone reading is: can they do this legally when they know I am having surgery tomorrow?? I accept the WFR, have even fantasized about it, but the way it was done seemed wrong in every way. I was first WFR’d in 2006 and it was done by a local manager with my remote manager on the phone. At that time I was told it was company policy for it to be done face to face. This was done with 3 managers (1 in CO, 1 in NM, 1 who knows where and myself in IN) and myself all on differt lines. Any insite to the guidelines would be appreciated.
I’m not sure how serious your surgery is but two things – one you should check if they can dump you while on short term disability, and two is you can keep your existing ltd insurance when they dump you by paying for it – keep it in mind if you have serious problems.
I really do like my job. I like the people I work with on a daily basis. I like serving the customer and doing my best.
However, I hate the fact that my work, and the work of the good people I see every day, is padding the pockets of the dictatorial idiots who don’t care at all about anyone but themselves. I wish I could just leave before I get WFRed because they will find out how much I freakin hate the “leadership” of HP. It isn’t just Mark Hurd, but all the cronies who follow his lead and do what he wants.
The point is that it is hard to find another job which is so right for me and that I would love this much, but I hate hanging on to this because it is feeding the wolves at the top. I wish I could hate this job, but I don’t.
Oh well, it’s off to work I go…
“I hate hanging on to this because it is feeding the wolves at the top.”
I, an HP/EDS employee, feel exactly the same way. I am making preparations to leave, even though my job is fine as far as it goes, for only two reasons: (1) to overcome inertia, and (2) to get away from the HP management culture. And with the economy the way it is, I would probably stay around if it were only a matter of (1).
I’m not saying it will be much better at most other companies. In fact, I want out of the entire corporate world, and am prepared to take a serious pay cut to do it.
I really do like my job. I like the people I work with on a daily basis. I like serving the customer and doing my best.
However, I hate the fact that my work, and the work of the good people I see every day, is padding the pockets of the dictatorial idiots who don’t care at all about anyone but themselves. I wish I could just leave before I get WFRed because they will find out how much I freakin hate the “leadership” of HP. It isn’t just Mark Hurd, but all the cronies who follow his lead and do what he wants.
The point is that it is hard to find another job which is so right for me and that I would love this much, but I hate hanging on to this because it is feeding the wolves at the top. I wish I could hate this job, but I don’t.
Oh well, it’s off to work I go…
“I hate hanging on to this because it is feeding the wolves at the top.”
I, an HP/EDS employee, feel exactly the same way. I am making preparations to leave, even though my job is fine as far as it goes, for only two reasons: (1) to overcome inertia, and (2) to get away from the HP management culture. And with the economy the way it is, I would probably stay around if it were only a matter of (1).
I’m not saying it will be much better at most other companies. In fact, I want out of the entire corporate world, and am prepared to take a serious pay cut to do it.
I’m not sure if anyone thought about this. But if you take $42m and divide by his $1.5m annual salary, the value works out to be 28. That’s right, he earned 28 years worth of annual salary in 1 year while many of us get no bonus or very low bonus. By any measure, making 28 years worth of salary in 1 year is insane.
I’m not sure if anyone thought about this. But if you take $42m and divide by his $1.5m annual salary, the value works out to be 28. That’s right, he earned 28 years worth of annual salary in 1 year while many of us get no bonus or very low bonus. By any measure, making 28 years worth of salary in 1 year is insane.
Hi all,
Trust and respect for individuals
We work together to create a culture of inclusion built on trust, respect and dignity for all these golden words should be
kept in “only in book” “open door policy” they are not updating who are all getting fired from the projects also.
check with some one who is serverd in HP and how the HR people behaves on the last day @ HP.
Regards
lost@HP.
Hi all,
Trust and respect for individuals
We work together to create a culture of inclusion built on trust, respect and dignity for all these golden words should be
kept in “only in book” “open door policy” they are not updating who are all getting fired from the projects also.
check with some one who is serverd in HP and how the HR people behaves on the last day @ HP.
Regards
lost@HP.
Hurd’s latest coffee talk replay seemed to be censored quite a bit. Anyone of you who attended the talk care to share what did I miss? This is the first time such a thing happened. So much for uncompromising integrity.
Hurd’s latest coffee talk replay seemed to be censored quite a bit. Anyone of you who attended the talk care to share what did I miss? This is the first time such a thing happened. So much for uncompromising integrity.
Would anybody disagree that it’s senior management’s role to take difficult decisions? Arguably, by ‘getting ahead’ of the economic cycle and pruning cost, MH is doing what any CEO would (should?) do…
On the other hand, clearly (& I retain friends still within HP) HOW this is done, and how honestly it’s articulated are really important to HP staff..and that seems to have gotten worse over recent times. That’s what seems to stick in the craw – the shift from ‘a great place to work’ to ‘just another job’. Staff would go in droves if they could. IMHO that could be MH’s major legacy if he isn’t careful… a very profitable company in the short term, but one with no foundation as times improve and the economy picks up and… people leave.
You are right, of course it’s management’s responsibility to make the “hard decisions” and I too believe that Mark Hurd will leave HP a shadow of it’s former self, and at about the time when the world, or the market, wakes up to the fact that he’s achieved the illusion of profit through prolonged exploitation of HP’s people, and the consumption of EDS. While all the time merely competing for market share in an already over crowded market, with products that are destined, with technological advances that are coming, for obscurity.
Would anybody disagree that it’s senior management’s role to take difficult decisions? Arguably, by ‘getting ahead’ of the economic cycle and pruning cost, MH is doing what any CEO would (should?) do…
On the other hand, clearly (& I retain friends still within HP) HOW this is done, and how honestly it’s articulated are really important to HP staff..and that seems to have gotten worse over recent times. That’s what seems to stick in the craw – the shift from ‘a great place to work’ to ‘just another job’. Staff would go in droves if they could. IMHO that could be MH’s major legacy if he isn’t careful… a very profitable company in the short term, but one with no foundation as times improve and the economy picks up and… people leave.
You are right, of course it’s management’s responsibility to make the “hard decisions” and I too believe that Mark Hurd will leave HP a shadow of it’s former self, and at about the time when the world, or the market, wakes up to the fact that he’s achieved the illusion of profit through prolonged exploitation of HP’s people, and the consumption of EDS. While all the time merely competing for market share in an already over crowded market, with products that are destined, with technological advances that are coming, for obscurity.
Trust and respect for individuals
We work together to create a culture of inclusion built on trust, respect and dignity for all.
What a joke!
We learned today that at least some of HP’s US facilities are going to be installing monitors in all employee’s chairs so that their presence can be remotely detected and monitored. This comes of course on the heels of the forced moves of employees from various departments to undesirable locations in an attempt to get people to leave without HP having to pay even the meager severance that is now in effect in the US.
There has to be somewhere within this company an elite group of people who do nothing but try and think up ever more creative ways to try and force the remainder of the stubborn American employees to leave on their own so that HP can expedite the hiring of their “replacements” from various developing countries.
HA! I have been managed remotely for years and have often thought our chairs should be like riding lawnmowers.. This way my system would shut off if I wasn’t in my seat. I too am being forced to re-locate but in light of the “new” layoffs, I am not sure if I can move my family knowing I may get there and not have employment. I am having trouble sleeping with the unnecessary stress. I am also scheduled for surgery in 2 weeks so no idea what the company will pull while I am out.
!?!?! Serious? What site? I can’t believe that, not when keystroke loggers would be a more cost effective solution.
It is apparent to me that I am being managed with the goal to get as much knowledge as my manager can get out of me as fast as they can. I am fortunate enough to have a manager that I trust, and although unsaid, they know they are on borrowed time with me. I am a short timer at EDS, so still have many contacts outside the company. We all know that the WFR’s will come, and the only ones that are safe are those on the pet projects. I plan to take my vacation as I want. If I am still around at the end of the year, borrow from my 2010, because I will not be there long after.
I can not say enough how unfortunate this is. My feeling is that Mark Hurd is not going to stick around after the market turns, a “grab and go”. He will leave behind a limping company that will struggle to redefine itself in the market place, and go on to rape the next company. Sad to say that IBM is doing the same thing.
What ever company that grabs up the HP and IBM “cast offs” will be very lucky indeed. The moral is so low, that any tidbit that is offered will seem like gold at this point (letting employees take vacation when they want, any matching for 401k, stable salary).
Yes thats Marcella’s band of HR monkeys
There is also RANDY RUNK the BEAST from ORACLE and his sales “leadersip” team they have gotten quite good at demotivating and discouraging the Americas sales force. If threats and nonpayment of sales compensation for 7 months isnt enough they have forms and new complex processes to make it impossible to actually face customers and SELL Something It does however make him and his management team look good to Ann Livermore and Mark Hurd they have reports about reports that back up the HP success story (its a house of cards)
This is the elite group of people you are refering too…
Trust and respect for individuals
We work together to create a culture of inclusion built on trust, respect and dignity for all.
What a joke!
We learned today that at least some of HP’s US facilities are going to be installing monitors in all employee’s chairs so that their presence can be remotely detected and monitored. This comes of course on the heels of the forced moves of employees from various departments to undesirable locations in an attempt to get people to leave without HP having to pay even the meager severance that is now in effect in the US.
There has to be somewhere within this company an elite group of people who do nothing but try and think up ever more creative ways to try and force the remainder of the stubborn American employees to leave on their own so that HP can expedite the hiring of their “replacements” from various developing countries.
HA! I have been managed remotely for years and have often thought our chairs should be like riding lawnmowers.. This way my system would shut off if I wasn’t in my seat. I too am being forced to re-locate but in light of the “new” layoffs, I am not sure if I can move my family knowing I may get there and not have employment. I am having trouble sleeping with the unnecessary stress. I am also scheduled for surgery in 2 weeks so no idea what the company will pull while I am out.
!?!?! Serious? What site? I can’t believe that, not when keystroke loggers would be a more cost effective solution.
It is apparent to me that I am being managed with the goal to get as much knowledge as my manager can get out of me as fast as they can. I am fortunate enough to have a manager that I trust, and although unsaid, they know they are on borrowed time with me. I am a short timer at EDS, so still have many contacts outside the company. We all know that the WFR’s will come, and the only ones that are safe are those on the pet projects. I plan to take my vacation as I want. If I am still around at the end of the year, borrow from my 2010, because I will not be there long after.
I can not say enough how unfortunate this is. My feeling is that Mark Hurd is not going to stick around after the market turns, a “grab and go”. He will leave behind a limping company that will struggle to redefine itself in the market place, and go on to rape the next company. Sad to say that IBM is doing the same thing.
What ever company that grabs up the HP and IBM “cast offs” will be very lucky indeed. The moral is so low, that any tidbit that is offered will seem like gold at this point (letting employees take vacation when they want, any matching for 401k, stable salary).
Yes thats Marcella’s band of HR monkeys
There is also RANDY RUNK the BEAST from ORACLE and his sales “leadersip” team they have gotten quite good at demotivating and discouraging the Americas sales force. If threats and nonpayment of sales compensation for 7 months isnt enough they have forms and new complex processes to make it impossible to actually face customers and SELL Something It does however make him and his management team look good to Ann Livermore and Mark Hurd they have reports about reports that back up the HP success story (its a house of cards)
This is the elite group of people you are refering too…
Absolutely disgusting. See the comment on HP from the BBC website. Re: a plant closing in Scotland. Promises were made to the community there, but as always Mark Hurds HP lied.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8071596.stm
5,700 jobs to go in HP Europe. Hands up HP Europe workers who feel inclined to accept a paycut so we can avoid losing jobs? Hell! It might be me, so I think I’ll keep my 5% thanks all the same. We should write to the MPs quoted and remind them that meanwhile HP is taking European tax payer money by fleecing public IT projects and still turning a reasonable profit. This isn’t the action of an ethical corporate body, it’s a wanton act of opportunistic greed. HPs products and services are getting so cheap now, I question anyone’s sanity in buying them. Utter farce !
Absolutely disgusting. See the comment on HP from the BBC website. Re: a plant closing in Scotland. Promises were made to the community there, but as always Mark Hurds HP lied.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8071596.stm
5,700 jobs to go in HP Europe. Hands up HP Europe workers who feel inclined to accept a paycut so we can avoid losing jobs? Hell! It might be me, so I think I’ll keep my 5% thanks all the same. We should write to the MPs quoted and remind them that meanwhile HP is taking European tax payer money by fleecing public IT projects and still turning a reasonable profit. This isn’t the action of an ethical corporate body, it’s a wanton act of opportunistic greed. HPs products and services are getting so cheap now, I question anyone’s sanity in buying them. Utter farce !
2 months and 1 week out of the Hewlett Packard. I am still loving it. Well, I admit that I did lost quite bit of freedom in my new job but I believe I got my dignity back!
To be honest since the September 2008 financial market crashed, I have been living in constant fear on when I will get laid off and would I be able to get another job, etc. Well, opportunity came knocking..I seized, although I did struggle quite a bit on leaving my comfort zone at HP…but now, 2 months plus on, I am out of the fear-mongering company, in a new company that value people and most importantly walks its talk. Anyhow, it is still quite sad to hear old colleagues complain about the constant fear that they are under…I wish them well.
2 months and 1 week out of the Hewlett Packard. I am still loving it. Well, I admit that I did lost quite bit of freedom in my new job but I believe I got my dignity back!
To be honest since the September 2008 financial market crashed, I have been living in constant fear on when I will get laid off and would I be able to get another job, etc. Well, opportunity came knocking..I seized, although I did struggle quite a bit on leaving my comfort zone at HP…but now, 2 months plus on, I am out of the fear-mongering company, in a new company that value people and most importantly walks its talk. Anyhow, it is still quite sad to hear old colleagues complain about the constant fear that they are under…I wish them well.
Another great blog, Damian! Voice of the Workforce? Hmmmm, yes, well …. when the question “Do you like working for HP?” receives a, say, 65 per cent “YES”; Ann Livermore and those of her ilk pipe up with, “Great News! 65 per cent of the workforce like working here, hurrah!” …. ignoring the fact that 35 per cent do not on some level and that’s quite a big proportion, wouldn’t you say?
The VoW survey is usually in June. By the time the feedback has filtered down the levels to either my manager or his manager, it is February the next year. Any “calls to action” as a result of the survey are swept under the carpet because, well, there’ll be another VoW survey along soon!
Uncompromising integrity? I have very strong doubts. I believe though it would be a very career-limiting move to say to an existing customer, “You know during the bid process when HP said they had X number of Certified Engineers in the support team? Well that was a lie, because those engineers are all tied to an existing customer deal and wouldn’t be working on your systems”. Never mind, hey?
On a personal level, I have immense passion for my two customers; but the higher-ups and their lunatic decisions make the actual job of supporting the customers bloody impossible sometimes (i.e., expecting ONE person to be a Delivery Lead for 400+ servers (not me, thank goodness!)).
Keep up the great work, Damian.
Another great blog, Damian! Voice of the Workforce? Hmmmm, yes, well …. when the question “Do you like working for HP?” receives a, say, 65 per cent “YES”; Ann Livermore and those of her ilk pipe up with, “Great News! 65 per cent of the workforce like working here, hurrah!” …. ignoring the fact that 35 per cent do not on some level and that’s quite a big proportion, wouldn’t you say?
The VoW survey is usually in June. By the time the feedback has filtered down the levels to either my manager or his manager, it is February the next year. Any “calls to action” as a result of the survey are swept under the carpet because, well, there’ll be another VoW survey along soon!
Uncompromising integrity? I have very strong doubts. I believe though it would be a very career-limiting move to say to an existing customer, “You know during the bid process when HP said they had X number of Certified Engineers in the support team? Well that was a lie, because those engineers are all tied to an existing customer deal and wouldn’t be working on your systems”. Never mind, hey?
On a personal level, I have immense passion for my two customers; but the higher-ups and their lunatic decisions make the actual job of supporting the customers bloody impossible sometimes (i.e., expecting ONE person to be a Delivery Lead for 400+ servers (not me, thank goodness!)).
Keep up the great work, Damian.
Bravo again Damian – an articulate and sharply observed riposte to the pigdog!
Just got a (rather long) piece from Bill & Dave – who after all built the edifice that Hurd is making flare brightly (from a short-term gain perspective), before it subsides into a glowing ember, it’s people and innovation spent, it’s heart torn out:
“I think many people assume, wrongly, that a company exists simply to make money,” said Packard during an HP management training session in 1960. “While this is an important result of a company’s existence, we have to go deeper to find our real reason for being…A group of people get together and exist as an institution that we call a company…to do something worthwhile – they make a contribution to society.”
In the company’s early years, Hewlett and Packard had made one rule, above all the others, the golden rule: no parts bins or storerooms should ever be locked. To outsiders, this was a mind-boggling phenomenon. Visitors to the company’s headquarters would be shocked that millions of dollars worth of parts and equipment were lying around free for anyone to use, and nobody ever suspected anyone else of theft.
What was the point of having this rule? It was not just to show that HP staff could be trusted. It was also to encourage what they called “the next-bench syndrome,” where one engineer’s gadget would intrigue the worker next to him, and a product would eventually ensue. And, in order for that to happen, people needed to have access to whatever tools they needed whenever the urge stuck. Closing the doors to the parts and equipment, for Hewlett and Packard, was akin to closing the doors on innovation.
At HP, innovation became entrenched in everything the company did. It was not just something to aspire towards; it was a way of being and working. Indeed, Hewlett and Packard believed that fostering a culture of innovation was equally as important, if not more so, as riding the latest technology wave.
Even while he was CEO, Hewlett could not help but become himself absorbed in the lab with his fellow engineers. He would investigate new gadgets and toss out random ideas, asking his staff, “What do you think? Could we do that?”
Hewlett and Packard understood the nature of their industry; if they were going to survive, they were going to have to engage in a non-stop process of innovation. And so, they set out on a mission to embed that within their company and not only make it an end goal, but the very means to that end.”
So congratulations Mark, you slick, oily, loathsome right-wing pampered pig. Good luck with destroying something great, and enjoy all the disgusting piles of money you can stuff into your bulging Ivy-League pockets. Jesus, people like you drag down the world for everyone; better you were never born – make the fat fatter, and destroy the less fortunate. Good job, piggy. Good Job.
By the way one of the points from my last post was that Mr Hurd is destroying innovation in HP. Most employees couldn’t give a ***k about creating new ideas, as he steals their hard earned salary, simply to throw it to the slavering share-dogs baying for more profit. And hence the R&D budget is collapsing – why, it takes slop from the mouths of gorging pigs, so why allow it? Sick, sick pig for sure – he’ll walk off the titanic before it sinks, leaving women and children behind him but of course; well what would else you expect from a sweaty, oily, avaricious hog?
When the door opened for Mark Hurd, the innovation door slammed shut.
Contrast HP with Apple…HP has become financially astute but insignificant. Apple carved out a blue ocean niche for itself, became synonymous with desirable products and is now one of the worlds most admired companies, AND their shareholders are happy too!!!
Trust me Mr HP, when I wanted my PC to be “personal” again, I bought a Mac.
Plenty of my coworkers have been buying Macs and iPhones recently. IMO the iPhone is waaaaaay better then the piece of junk up ipaq business communicator! What an embarrasment! The pc range does nothing for me compared to the macs. Ok maybe voodoo is cool, but they r too expensive.
As he stated in todays q2 brain washing, Hurd wants us to sell to our friends. Not me! I’m telling everyone I know to avoid HP products at all costs. If, in the unlikely event HP make something cool, I might change my mind. I’m confident I won’t be changing my mind for some considerable time.
He he!
Like what part of “make something good and people will buy it” doesn’t Mark Hurd understand?
Sell to your friends, what, does he think HP is Amway or something?
I just bought all our new employees Apple laptops – fantastic. Great IT Technology = productivity = motivation = profit. Simple as that.
Innovation can’t exist if you’re shutting down your R&D
This was posted today
…HP Labs is about to be deeply affected by some serious job cuts. More sadly, HP Labs in Bristol is taking most of the hit (3 labs are going, around 70 people)……
To be frank the reasons given by our top management are nothing but unsatisfactory and I am still trying to come up to terms with their rationale: this all sounds very very arbitrary. I thought my project had an ambitious yet clear goal, was very relevant (it has cloud in the title so what can go wrong), but to the complexity of management exposed I am not. Anyway to all business units out there: if you want to grab a bunch of very clever, creative and innovative people -or me-, now is the time, they will be plenty around in Bristol looking for new homes.
Bravo again Damian – an articulate and sharply observed riposte to the pigdog!
Just got a (rather long) piece from Bill & Dave – who after all built the edifice that Hurd is making flare brightly (from a short-term gain perspective), before it subsides into a glowing ember, it’s people and innovation spent, it’s heart torn out:
“I think many people assume, wrongly, that a company exists simply to make money,” said Packard during an HP management training session in 1960. “While this is an important result of a company’s existence, we have to go deeper to find our real reason for being…A group of people get together and exist as an institution that we call a company…to do something worthwhile – they make a contribution to society.”
In the company’s early years, Hewlett and Packard had made one rule, above all the others, the golden rule: no parts bins or storerooms should ever be locked. To outsiders, this was a mind-boggling phenomenon. Visitors to the company’s headquarters would be shocked that millions of dollars worth of parts and equipment were lying around free for anyone to use, and nobody ever suspected anyone else of theft.
What was the point of having this rule? It was not just to show that HP staff could be trusted. It was also to encourage what they called “the next-bench syndrome,” where one engineer’s gadget would intrigue the worker next to him, and a product would eventually ensue. And, in order for that to happen, people needed to have access to whatever tools they needed whenever the urge stuck. Closing the doors to the parts and equipment, for Hewlett and Packard, was akin to closing the doors on innovation.
At HP, innovation became entrenched in everything the company did. It was not just something to aspire towards; it was a way of being and working. Indeed, Hewlett and Packard believed that fostering a culture of innovation was equally as important, if not more so, as riding the latest technology wave.
Even while he was CEO, Hewlett could not help but become himself absorbed in the lab with his fellow engineers. He would investigate new gadgets and toss out random ideas, asking his staff, “What do you think? Could we do that?”
Hewlett and Packard understood the nature of their industry; if they were going to survive, they were going to have to engage in a non-stop process of innovation. And so, they set out on a mission to embed that within their company and not only make it an end goal, but the very means to that end.”
So congratulations Mark, you slick, oily, loathsome right-wing pampered pig. Good luck with destroying something great, and enjoy all the disgusting piles of money you can stuff into your bulging Ivy-League pockets. Jesus, people like you drag down the world for everyone; better you were never born – make the fat fatter, and destroy the less fortunate. Good job, piggy. Good Job.
By the way one of the points from my last post was that Mr Hurd is destroying innovation in HP. Most employees couldn’t give a ***k about creating new ideas, as he steals their hard earned salary, simply to throw it to the slavering share-dogs baying for more profit. And hence the R&D budget is collapsing – why, it takes slop from the mouths of gorging pigs, so why allow it? Sick, sick pig for sure – he’ll walk off the titanic before it sinks, leaving women and children behind him but of course; well what would else you expect from a sweaty, oily, avaricious hog?
When the door opened for Mark Hurd, the innovation door slammed shut.
Contrast HP with Apple…HP has become financially astute but insignificant. Apple carved out a blue ocean niche for itself, became synonymous with desirable products and is now one of the worlds most admired companies, AND their shareholders are happy too!!!
Trust me Mr HP, when I wanted my PC to be “personal” again, I bought a Mac.
Plenty of my coworkers have been buying Macs and iPhones recently. IMO the iPhone is waaaaaay better then the piece of junk up ipaq business communicator! What an embarrasment! The pc range does nothing for me compared to the macs. Ok maybe voodoo is cool, but they r too expensive.
As he stated in todays q2 brain washing, Hurd wants us to sell to our friends. Not me! I’m telling everyone I know to avoid HP products at all costs. If, in the unlikely event HP make something cool, I might change my mind. I’m confident I won’t be changing my mind for some considerable time.
He he!
Like what part of “make something good and people will buy it” doesn’t Mark Hurd understand?
Sell to your friends, what, does he think HP is Amway or something?
I just bought all our new employees Apple laptops – fantastic. Great IT Technology = productivity = motivation = profit. Simple as that.
Innovation can’t exist if you’re shutting down your R&D;
This was posted today
…HP Labs is about to be deeply affected by some serious job cuts. More sadly, HP Labs in Bristol is taking most of the hit (3 labs are going, around 70 people)……
To be frank the reasons given by our top management are nothing but unsatisfactory and I am still trying to come up to terms with their rationale: this all sounds very very arbitrary. I thought my project had an ambitious yet clear goal, was very relevant (it has cloud in the title so what can go wrong), but to the complexity of management exposed I am not. Anyway to all business units out there: if you want to grab a bunch of very clever, creative and innovative people -or me-, now is the time, they will be plenty around in Bristol looking for new homes.
Even if Budzinksi is fired, which he darn well should be, the cat is out of the bag. Sure, he thought it, it’s debatable whether that line of thinking came from Mark, but the fact remains that Budzinski voiced what some other managers, at all levels will be thinking. We all know the sort of manager, the micro managing control freak who’s trying to shin his or her way up the slim infested corporate ladder. HP is infested with these types. I can barely watch anymore coffee talks. Why on earth these people feel the need to use such ridiculous vocabulary is beyond me, but the worst is that you know that they REALLY DON’T CARE about anyone’s opinion but their own.
Although people have chosen to vilify bankers, they’re missing the elephant in the room. Banks and corporations attract exactly the sort of people who talk and behave in the bullying ways that they do. It’s not a majority, but is pervasive enough the make work really suck ass.
In conclusion, a NO vote WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY be a BLACK MARK on your record at HP as you are bound to run into a Budzinski at some point in your existance at HP. For this reason, YOU SHOULD VOTE NO! Screw them! They don’t like you anyway because you’re not like them.
L
Even if Budzinksi is fired, which he darn well should be, the cat is out of the bag. Sure, he thought it, it’s debatable whether that line of thinking came from Mark, but the fact remains that Budzinski voiced what some other managers, at all levels will be thinking. We all know the sort of manager, the micro managing control freak who’s trying to shin his or her way up the slim infested corporate ladder. HP is infested with these types. I can barely watch anymore coffee talks. Why on earth these people feel the need to use such ridiculous vocabulary is beyond me, but the worst is that you know that they REALLY DON’T CARE about anyone’s opinion but their own.
Although people have chosen to vilify bankers, they’re missing the elephant in the room. Banks and corporations attract exactly the sort of people who talk and behave in the bullying ways that they do. It’s not a majority, but is pervasive enough the make work really suck ass.
In conclusion, a NO vote WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY be a BLACK MARK on your record at HP as you are bound to run into a Budzinski at some point in your existance at HP. For this reason, YOU SHOULD VOTE NO! Screw them! They don’t like you anyway because you’re not like them.
L
Passion for customers – the employees involved in actual delivery to customers DO put them first, in many cases even to their personal cost. As an example, EDS currently has draconian travel restrictions, but people are still travelling to help customers, with no guarantees of getting their expenses refunded. It’s somewhere in the lower ranges of HP management where passion for customers starts to come second to looking after P&L, and all Mark cares about is delivering his numbers to Wall Street once a quarter. If he misses his numbers he wields the job axe…
Uncompromising integrity – it could be argued that at a technical level he has told the truth about both his pay and job cuts (the announcement did refer to ‘base pay’ only ). However I agree that this doesn’t paint the disturbing bigger picture.
Trust and respect for individuals – the Budzinski comments were appalling and have indeed been removed from the internal webcast. However, they were there and many, many people have heard them. No doubt our local management will deny all knowledge and/or state ‘that’s not what we’re doing in the UK’. What can Budzinski actually do at Performance Review time? Give everyone who declined the kind offer of a pay cut an ‘I’ (Needs Improvement) rating? He will be giving out an awful lot of them…Also, what can we do about Budzinski? We are encouraged to report violations to Standards Of Business Conduct and someone should, but I suspect such an action would be career-limiting…Any brave souls out there?
Commitment to employees – yes, as long at it doesn’t cost anything…HP needs a ‘best in class’ (i.e. cheapest) cost structure remember. So, no pay rises, E-Awards, training, Christmas (Steve Gill, VP and UK Country Manager couldn’t authorise it – said volumes), reduced car allowances, reduced pension contributions etc. There’s little benefit in being promoted – no pay rise, less potential work as you’re more expensive and less chance of a high rating at Performance Review because you have higher objectives.
Voice of the Workforce is pretty pointless, as they pick the easy stuff tell you they fixed that, whilst ignoring the important stuff (last year it was pay and rations).
Oh, and ‘if you’re not happy – leave’…
Welcome to the New HP
Great point on Voice of the Workforce Survey. I’s have to add that many are afraid to add real comments. If you report to a manager who has 8 or more people reporting to them (if I remember correctly)they see the individual surveys as opposed to a rollup. So while they may be considered confidential many people I know, including myself, feel that making critical comments could easily backfire if management figures out who you are.
I was WFR’d a couple of weeks ago, about 10% of the people in PSG in the US were effected. The reason given was “to improve profitability”. From my perspective and everyone I know who were effected being chosen for WFR has nothing to do with performance. Rather it seems that it’s all about who likes whom the best. Or perhaps who sucks up to management the least is selected. HP is not a good place to be and while being WFR’d is a shock I think it really is for the best. Things are not getting better any time soon.
From my experience, being one of those people who had to pick people to go, I’d say that the majority of managers have some sense of conscience but they are well beyond getting rid of the “dead wood”, that happened in 2004. The decision then becomes “who can I afford to go without” and it relates to getting the ever increasing demands of delivery accomplished. It’s a very fine line.
As a past recipient of the VoW comments I can assure you that you don’t know who made them, just that it came from your organization.
Mark Hurd is an idiot if he thinks that decreasing costs only will improve profitability in the long term. It wont.
Real sustainable profitability comes from marketing products and services that customers want, find desirable, and will pay good money for, in markets where there is less competition, whilst keeping your cost base neutral. Simply competing for market share with your rivals is to play in the space of ever decreasing profitability.
Passion for customers – the employees involved in actual delivery to customers DO put them first, in many cases even to their personal cost. As an example, EDS currently has draconian travel restrictions, but people are still travelling to help customers, with no guarantees of getting their expenses refunded. It’s somewhere in the lower ranges of HP management where passion for customers starts to come second to looking after P&L;, and all Mark cares about is delivering his numbers to Wall Street once a quarter. If he misses his numbers he wields the job axe…
Uncompromising integrity – it could be argued that at a technical level he has told the truth about both his pay and job cuts (the announcement did refer to ‘base pay’ only ). However I agree that this doesn’t paint the disturbing bigger picture.
Trust and respect for individuals – the Budzinski comments were appalling and have indeed been removed from the internal webcast. However, they were there and many, many people have heard them. No doubt our local management will deny all knowledge and/or state ‘that’s not what we’re doing in the UK’. What can Budzinski actually do at Performance Review time? Give everyone who declined the kind offer of a pay cut an ‘I’ (Needs Improvement) rating? He will be giving out an awful lot of them…Also, what can we do about Budzinski? We are encouraged to report violations to Standards Of Business Conduct and someone should, but I suspect such an action would be career-limiting…Any brave souls out there?
Commitment to employees – yes, as long at it doesn’t cost anything…HP needs a ‘best in class’ (i.e. cheapest) cost structure remember. So, no pay rises, E-Awards, training, Christmas (Steve Gill, VP and UK Country Manager couldn’t authorise it – said volumes), reduced car allowances, reduced pension contributions etc. There’s little benefit in being promoted – no pay rise, less potential work as you’re more expensive and less chance of a high rating at Performance Review because you have higher objectives.
Voice of the Workforce is pretty pointless, as they pick the easy stuff tell you they fixed that, whilst ignoring the important stuff (last year it was pay and rations).
Oh, and ‘if you’re not happy – leave’…
Welcome to the New HP
Great point on Voice of the Workforce Survey. I’s have to add that many are afraid to add real comments. If you report to a manager who has 8 or more people reporting to them (if I remember correctly)they see the individual surveys as opposed to a rollup. So while they may be considered confidential many people I know, including myself, feel that making critical comments could easily backfire if management figures out who you are.
I was WFR’d a couple of weeks ago, about 10% of the people in PSG in the US were effected. The reason given was “to improve profitability”. From my perspective and everyone I know who were effected being chosen for WFR has nothing to do with performance. Rather it seems that it’s all about who likes whom the best. Or perhaps who sucks up to management the least is selected. HP is not a good place to be and while being WFR’d is a shock I think it really is for the best. Things are not getting better any time soon.
From my experience, being one of those people who had to pick people to go, I’d say that the majority of managers have some sense of conscience but they are well beyond getting rid of the “dead wood”, that happened in 2004. The decision then becomes “who can I afford to go without” and it relates to getting the ever increasing demands of delivery accomplished. It’s a very fine line.
As a past recipient of the VoW comments I can assure you that you don’t know who made them, just that it came from your organization.
Mark Hurd is an idiot if he thinks that decreasing costs only will improve profitability in the long term. It wont.
Real sustainable profitability comes from marketing products and services that customers want, find desirable, and will pay good money for, in markets where there is less competition, whilst keeping your cost base neutral. Simply competing for market share with your rivals is to play in the space of ever decreasing profitability.
yes we can expect couple of acquisition in 3 monhts. HP is having 30 bl cash in hand they will acquire.
Regard’s
lost@hp