Comments on: Mark Hurd and HP, economic opportunism and greed, one year on. http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/ ...because I can. Thu, 09 Sep 2010 07:06:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: HPukstaffer http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/comment-page-4/#comment-3484 HPukstaffer Thu, 02 Sep 2010 07:56:00 +0000 http://www.damiansaunders.net/?p=732#comment-3484 In the UK we also have discounts from other companies like Costco, Panasonic, etc. If you look on the internet all these 'HP discounts' can be equalled if not bettered. The execs think we are all idiots. In the UK we also have discounts from other companies like Costco, Panasonic, etc. If you look on the internet all these ‘HP discounts’ can be equalled if not bettered. The execs think we are all idiots.

]]> By: HPNZ-Staffer http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/comment-page-4/#comment-3483 HPNZ-Staffer Tue, 31 Aug 2010 03:54:00 +0000 http://www.damiansaunders.net/?p=732#comment-3483 HP's latest gib is to offer us deals on equipment, the prices are not too much different to what you would find in any good IT retailer anyway, also offering their e-awards system to managers which is way behind par - The employees don't care, we want money and pay increases not effing product. Product doesn't pay the grocery bills, Money does! The amount of emails we have had over the last few months about the billions of dollars in business they have won and yet we see nothing HP’s latest gib is to offer us deals on equipment, the prices are not too much different to what you would find in any good IT retailer anyway, also offering their e-awards system to managers which is way behind par – The employees don’t care, we want money and pay increases not effing product. Product doesn’t pay the grocery bills, Money does!
The amount of emails we have had over the last few months about the billions of dollars in business they have won and yet we see nothing

]]> By: UK Employee http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/comment-page-4/#comment-2120 UK Employee Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:35:00 +0000 http://www.damiansaunders.net/?p=732#comment-2120 Ah, VoW...it may be a voice but management only hear what they want to hear, then emphasise the positives and 'cherry pick' the easy stuff from the rest so they can say 'we listened, here's how we responded' whilst resolutely ignoring the elephant in the room. How to improve morale at HP? Start with a pay rise for the rank and file...it wouldn't have to be much; even 2% would help. Perhaps a couple of the senior exec could forgo a bonus this year to fund it. Ah, VoW…it may be a voice but management only hear what they want to hear, then emphasise the positives and ‘cherry pick’ the easy stuff from the rest so they can say ‘we listened, here’s how we responded’ whilst resolutely ignoring the elephant in the room.

How to improve morale at HP? Start with a pay rise for the rank and file…it wouldn’t have to be much; even 2% would help. Perhaps a couple of the senior exec could forgo a bonus this year to fund it.

]]> By: FormerHp http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/comment-page-4/#comment-2119 FormerHp Thu, 19 Aug 2010 23:43:00 +0000 http://www.damiansaunders.net/?p=732#comment-2119 I came across this web site: http://hpphenom.blogspot.com/2010/08/holy-mackeral.html which claims that the latest VOW (Voice of the Workforce) survey done last April shows that 2/3 of HP's workforce would leave in an instant if they could find a job with comparable salary/benefits. I was let go a few years ago and I recall always ticking off yes when it came to that question. I forget what percentage of people back then would leave HP for the same salary/benefits but I know it was quite high. Most decent companies would be aghast at such an incredibly high number, but not HP. How can any company go anywhere with such a massive morale problem? I recall talking to fellow HP employees in two different countries and everyone of them told me that they wished the high tech industry would pick up so they could leave HP. We all know that the "HP Way" has been dead for some time but know HP has lost its way. I have no idea how anyone could possible do anything to improve morale at HP (perhaps HP employees could organize themselves and form a union to protect their interests). I came across this web site:

http://hpphenom.blogspot.com/2010/08/holy-mackeral.html

which claims that the latest VOW (Voice of the Workforce) survey done last April shows that 2/3 of HP’s workforce would leave in an instant if they could find a job with comparable salary/benefits.

I was let go a few years ago and I recall always ticking off yes when it came to that question. I forget what percentage of people back then would leave HP for the same salary/benefits but I know it was quite high.

Most decent companies would be aghast at such an incredibly high number, but not HP. How can any company go anywhere with such a massive morale problem? I recall talking to fellow HP employees in two different countries and everyone of them told me that they wished the high tech industry would pick up so they could leave HP.

We all know that the “HP Way” has been dead for some time but know HP has lost its way. I have no idea how anyone could possible do anything to improve morale at HP (perhaps HP employees could organize themselves and form a union to protect their interests).

]]> By: Damian Saunders http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/comment-page-4/#comment-2095 Damian Saunders Sat, 14 Aug 2010 22:19:00 +0000 http://www.damiansaunders.net/?p=732#comment-2095 I'd say extremely naive. When you consider that nothing, no decision, ever stopped Mark Hurd from reducing the workforce, or moving it offshore. What ideas? I’d say extremely naive. When you consider that nothing, no decision, ever stopped Mark Hurd from reducing the workforce, or moving it offshore.
What ideas?

]]> By: Debbie http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/comment-page-4/#comment-2096 Debbie Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:10:00 +0000 http://www.damiansaunders.net/?p=732#comment-2096 "..these decisions make the difference at the end of the month and prevent you to reduce the work force of the company". Extremely short sighted. Great business man? His ideas will keep HP in the top Fortune 100 ? Are you serious ? “..these decisions make the difference at the end of the month and prevent you to reduce the work force of the company”.
Extremely short sighted. Great business man? His ideas will keep HP in the top Fortune 100 ? Are you serious ?

]]> By: JK http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/comment-page-4/#comment-2091 JK Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:38:00 +0000 http://www.damiansaunders.net/?p=732#comment-2091 Everything CH says is true. Any old EDSer could write almost the same story. I left EDS in 2000 for the other 3-letter company, I Been Moved, for what I thought were greener pastures. After seven years with NO raises or bonuses I had enough and came back to EDS, who gleefully took me back. It's been another four years of NO raises or bonuses, despite being a technical leader, the go-to person to get the work done. And in the end a wonderful 5 percent decrease in pay just to pay the likes of the Dark Turd who did nothing to increase business(not counting buying EDS), but to simply cut people and salaries to show a profit while skimming off the top and riding the backs of all the people in the trenches. All this while HP is in the midst of cutting 9,000 more people and building new datacenters off shore. While the costs may be cheaper, the service provided will tank due to the lack of experience. Ross Perot started EDS with $1,000. If we get enough people together with a spare $10.00, perhaps we could build a new EDS... but then, who has a spare $10.00 today? Everything CH says is true. Any old EDSer could write almost the same story. I left EDS in 2000 for the other 3-letter company, I Been Moved, for what I thought were greener pastures. After seven years with NO raises or bonuses I had enough and came back to EDS, who gleefully took me back. It’s been another four years of NO raises or bonuses, despite being a technical leader, the go-to person to get the work done. And in the end a wonderful 5 percent decrease in pay just to pay the likes of the Dark Turd who did nothing to increase business(not counting buying EDS), but to simply cut people and salaries to show a profit while skimming off the top and riding the backs of all the people in the trenches. All this while HP is in the midst of cutting 9,000 more people and building new datacenters off shore. While the costs may be cheaper, the service provided will tank due to the lack of experience. Ross Perot started EDS with $1,000. If we get enough people together with a spare $10.00, perhaps we could build a new EDS… but then, who has a spare $10.00 today?

]]> By: Mark Hurd http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/comment-page-4/#comment-2080 Mark Hurd Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:32:00 +0000 http://www.damiansaunders.net/?p=732#comment-2080 this is the Gary Budzinski video i find online. Where he talks about monitor who does and who does not take pay cut outside USA. I think this is against the law, no? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmK8qfd4lSs this is the Gary Budzinski video i find online. Where he talks about monitor who does and who does not take pay cut outside USA. I think this is against the law, no? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmK8qfd4lSs

]]> By: James http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/comment-page-4/#comment-2079 James Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:24:00 +0000 http://www.damiansaunders.net/?p=732#comment-2079 My experience with EDS tells me that very few senior managers could stand by their expense statements if an independent review were conducted over the past year. With frozen salaries, the expense system has been used to top up salaries for many years. What I find hypocritical is that the likes of Hurd and Dick Brown can be the hypocrites they are, have the awful reputations they have, destroy morale and customer confidence as they both have, and yet receive huge payoffs when they are asked to leave. If an employee was caught stealing from expenses, they sure wouldnt be getting generous hand shakes to leave. A real poke in the eye for employees. My experience with EDS tells me that very few senior managers could stand by their expense statements if an independent review were conducted over the past year. With frozen salaries, the expense system has been used to top up salaries for many years. What I find hypocritical is that the likes of Hurd and Dick Brown can be the hypocrites they are, have the awful reputations they have, destroy morale and customer confidence as they both have, and yet receive huge payoffs when they are asked to leave. If an employee was caught stealing from expenses, they sure wouldnt be getting generous hand shakes to leave. A real poke in the eye for employees.

]]> By: CH http://www.damiansaunders.net/2010/01/30/comment/hps-economic-opportunism-and-greed-one-year-on/comment-page-4/#comment-2069 CH Sun, 08 Aug 2010 18:32:20 +0000 http://www.damiansaunders.net/?p=732#comment-2069 This is great news. It is also further proof of the ridiculous concept of pay for performance. We all have seen instance after instance of execs that fail (let alone lie and steal!) get paid. It is a bit ridiculous. Is it a big surprise that Hurd screwed employees over in his tenure? He betrayed his wife and kids and probably could care less. He is entitled you know...<br><br>I foolishly (in hindsight) left a job at a University for EDS in early 2001. I had dollar signs in my eyes and figured I had to give the "corporate" world a try. Shortly after I arrived the pay increase freezes started. I recall sitting in a meeting with my manager and receiving my perpetual "meets expectations" rating. I asked her what I needed to do to be rated higher. I feigned interest while she gave me some canned BS answer. I then told her that as far as I was concerned I would always be "meets expectations". I said that I have good skills and already work as much as I was going to work. She looked kind of surprised and just said 'OK'. BTW, she was a terrible manager. She managed through fear and intimidation mostly. If someone had a good idea they automatically owned it. There was no consideration to their current workload or if it fit their skills. I and others stopped raising our hands when they had a good idea and a full plate. This management technique is a sure way to stifle creativity and it did. We all thought things were bad at EDS compensation wise from 2001-2008. The takeover of EDS in 2008 by HP made the EDS days seem like utopia. The pay/benefit/workforce cuts were/are constant. The one I found most amusing was the freezing of the EDS retirement benefit. It was replaced with a more generous 401k match that was highly touted by management. The 401k policy was promptly changed only a few months later to not be a guaranteed amount. It is dependent on company performance. This also allows them to not pay out until the end of the quarter once a decision is made on performance. I figured the next step would be to make regular pay variable based on company performance. I/We did get the 5% cut and others got much more of a cut due to a re-classification to HP job bands. I know of an individual whose pay was severely cut because they went from a tech band to a non-tech band. A few months later they were moved to a technical position because it was in the best interest of the project. Of course, no pay increase for doing a technical job. The erosion of benefits will continue I'm sure. <br><br>Good news is that I was able to work with some great people over the years. The manager I had most of those years is a great person and manager. The better news is that I am now back at work at the University I left in 2001. My "old job" opened up and I interviewed well and was re-hired. I make much less but EVRYTHING ELSE is much better. From the benefits to actually working with people face to face it is much more pleasant. I know I will not be let go so the CEO can make his numbers this quarter and get a bigger bonus. If I get let go, it will be because there is just not the money to pay my salary after all options are exhausted. I can live a lot easier with that reality. Funny, I goto work at 6:00-6:30 and leave after 5:00 generally these days. Putting more time in at work than I have in years. FOR LESS MONEY! I guess I should thank EDS and especially HP. You've reinforced what is really important to me. Making a living and enjoying it. Feeling like I'm contributing to the community and not just execs bonuses.<br><br>Later and thanks to listening to my disjointed thoughts. This is great news. It is also further proof of the ridiculous concept of pay for performance. We all have seen instance after instance of execs that fail (let alone lie and steal!) get paid. It is a bit ridiculous. Is it a big surprise that Hurd screwed employees over in his tenure? He betrayed his wife and kids and probably could care less. He is entitled you know…

I foolishly (in hindsight) left a job at a University for EDS in early 2001. I had dollar signs in my eyes and figured I had to give the “corporate” world a try. Shortly after I arrived the pay increase freezes started. I recall sitting in a meeting with my manager and receiving my perpetual “meets expectations” rating. I asked her what I needed to do to be rated higher. I feigned interest while she gave me some canned BS answer. I then told her that as far as I was concerned I would always be “meets expectations”. I said that I have good skills and already work as much as I was going to work. She looked kind of surprised and just said 'OK'. BTW, she was a terrible manager. She managed through fear and intimidation mostly. If someone had a good idea they automatically owned it. There was no consideration to their current workload or if it fit their skills. I and others stopped raising our hands when they had a good idea and a full plate. This management technique is a sure way to stifle creativity and it did. We all thought things were bad at EDS compensation wise from 2001-2008. The takeover of EDS in 2008 by HP made the EDS days seem like utopia. The pay/benefit/workforce cuts were/are constant. The one I found most amusing was the freezing of the EDS retirement benefit. It was replaced with a more generous 401k match that was highly touted by management. The 401k policy was promptly changed only a few months later to not be a guaranteed amount. It is dependent on company performance. This also allows them to not pay out until the end of the quarter once a decision is made on performance. I figured the next step would be to make regular pay variable based on company performance. I/We did get the 5% cut and others got much more of a cut due to a re-classification to HP job bands. I know of an individual whose pay was severely cut because they went from a tech band to a non-tech band. A few months later they were moved to a technical position because it was in the best interest of the project. Of course, no pay increase for doing a technical job. The erosion of benefits will continue I'm sure.

Good news is that I was able to work with some great people over the years. The manager I had most of those years is a great person and manager. The better news is that I am now back at work at the University I left in 2001. My “old job” opened up and I interviewed well and was re-hired. I make much less but EVRYTHING ELSE is much better. From the benefits to actually working with people face to face it is much more pleasant. I know I will not be let go so the CEO can make his numbers this quarter and get a bigger bonus. If I get let go, it will be because there is just not the money to pay my salary after all options are exhausted. I can live a lot easier with that reality. Funny, I goto work at 6:00-6:30 and leave after 5:00 generally these days. Putting more time in at work than I have in years. FOR LESS MONEY! I guess I should thank EDS and especially HP. You've reinforced what is really important to me. Making a living and enjoying it. Feeling like I'm contributing to the community and not just execs bonuses.

Later and thanks to listening to my disjointed thoughts.

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